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Welcome to another edition of I am AAPC. Today I have Mike Sanko from the Philadelphia Pennsylvania AAPC chapter. Hi Mike, how are you? Good Alex, how are you? I, thanks so much for being willing to do this. It's good to have you on. Tell us a little bit about yourself, your background, and what led you to medical coding. Sure, sure. Yeah, currently I am working as a senior compliance analyst at the University of Pennsylvania Health System in Philadelphia, where I'm responsible for auditing our inpatient, outpatient charts for accuracy with Medicare mostly and some of our other payers. In addition to other tasks such as training, training our staff, training our employees and physicians. But that's where I am now. The lead up to that goes back to my days in, I guess going back to college where I studied for health administration, got a bachelor's degree and health administration from the University of Scranton in Scranton, Pennsylvania, it's where I'm from. From that point, I've always kind of had the interest to be involved in health care, but more so on the administrative or the business end. So getting a bachelor's degree in health administration made it sense at the time, with a minor and a focus on business as well. I did graduate into the time of the financial downfall of about 2009, so things were tough back then trying to find jobs out of school. So my first job was as a customer service analyst with a health insurance company. That's really where I got my start. I learned a lot about the insurance industry

learned a lot about medical terminology, and really this is where I got my first taste of medical coding. Although I was not a coder, that's really where I learned about, you know, how coding is used in the health insurance and, you know, the overall health care industry as a whole. So from that point, my next step was with a third party in the health care industry, dealing with provider enrollment. Not so much coding in that area, but kind of more in the revenue cycle. Again, getting my feet wet in that area as well. From that point, I moved on to a hospital working on the accounts receivable side. Again, getting a little bit of more familiar with the coding aspect, but not yet a coder. It was at this point where, you know, I was really looking to move on in my career. I was in this position for a little while. I wasn't really, you know, wasn't really growing, wasn't really doing what I wanted to do. Had two young kids, really little kids at that point. I was studying for my master's degree. And at the same time, I happened to use a network, a friend who I happen to network with in a, you know, in this health care system where I currently work. And, you know, he mentioned, why don't you go out and get your CPC? You know, go get certified and that's going to open so many doors for you. So what I did is I basically went home that day, you know, after we talked, went home, uh, sign up for the AAPC course, the self-guided course for the CPC, and began studying for it right away. Again, while I'm studying for my master's degree

while I'm raising the two little ones at home, there's three now, but at the time there's two. But I saw the, you know, I saw the opportunity with this. So I went ahead and took that, you know, I took that opportunity and just went with it. So it took me about three months to go through that course. And really, that's where I learned everything in that course. And, you know, I had another job lined up at the time because of my interest in this course and because I was showing my active steps and becoming certified, the job kind of fell, you know, fell into my lab for me, but the certification was a requirement. So what I did is about a week before I started that position, I really wanted to get certified. So I went to a local chapter, I actually live in New Jersey just outside of Philadelphia. I went to a local chapter in Cherry Hill. First time ever going, I don't even think I was a member at that point, happened to run into somebody there that was teaching a course and proctering a practice exam a week before my actual exam. She let me come in. I've never met her before this point. Let me come in, sit for the test, and I did that. And you know, it was a great experience, kind of killed some of my nerves leading up to that actual test. And then a week later, took that test. And I can happily say on my first try, passed the exam. So, you know, from that point, past the exam, started my job as a compliance analyst. And now I am a senior compliance analyst at Penn Medicine. And just been utilizing, you know, all of these, you know

you know, all of what I've kind of gained from the APC, this, you know, this whole time. That's kind of the story. Mike, I'm curious, because there may be viewers watching who don't know what a compliance analyst does. Would you tell us a little bit about that role?. Yeah, absolutely. So I'm not I'm not actually a coder, per se, more of a auditor where I'm reviewing the coding of our health care providers in our health care system. Our providers are, you know, most of the providers are assigning their own codes. There are some areas that are being done by fee abstraction. But what I'm doing is reviewing their codes for accuracy, completeness, making sure the documentation supports the codes that are being billed. And then if there's any necessary adjustments needed to be made, we'll make those adjustments. And then part of that job is as well to educate our providers. And then not only educate on a prospective basis, but to also educate on any findings, any opportunities that we see in their, you know, in their documentation. So the good thing is, you know, the compliance industry, there's a lot of opportunity, a lot of options. It's, it's a lot going on. Every day looks different. So, you know, I might have taken maybe a different path, you know, maybe not to the direct coding path, but as a compliance analyst, I'm using coding every day. I'm using what I've learned in that CPC every day. And actually, since that point, I have gone and got my CRC in risk adjustments because of the, you know, the push for the, you know

you know, the risk adjustment and the HCCs. So since then I've gotten that certification as well and using that more and more every day. Do you think you would have gotten that job or typically compliance positions? Do they require a bachelor's or master's degree? You know, you know, not not necessarily. Yeah, some of them do, but not necessarily. And we have several, you know, in our department who may not have come in with a bachelor's degree or master's degree, but have actually used, you know, their experience and actually gotten to get that bachelor's degree while, you know, while working. So I don't necessarily think it is a requirement, but, you know, I came in, I came in with a bachelor's degree. But in, you know, in all honesty, the CPC was really what was more pressing for me. And that's kind of what I'm using, you know, that, that the knowledge gained from that is really being used a lot more than really anything else in this industry. Oh and you you know you had just passed the exam and you have this job but so you were CPCA. Correct. And many would say well there are many coders out there or CPCAs who are trying to find that first job. Do you think this is a good path for them should a new student or newly certified coder consider this as a viable path for them in their revenue cycle career? I would say, you know, anything in the revenue cycle would be a really good start. You're probably getting some coding experience in a revenue cycle and, you know, in a billing position

even accounts receivable. It may be challenging to go right into a compliance position, but it's not, you know, it's not something I would count out. But yeah, I would just take any opportunity to, you know, if you're looking to get into this industry, just take any opportunity that you can and at a facility or, you know, health care organization and just kind of get your feet wet and grow from there. Okay, I'm curious. How has your, your bachelor's degree helped you as a, as a C a CPC like how do they all complement each other and do you use do you use those skills that you received in college in your in your work. I'm utilizing these skills in a way that you know the public speaking aspect right in college we had to do a lot to do a lot of public speaking, right? We had to write a lot. We had to be able to communicate, work as a team. So maybe it's more of the soft skills that I'm able to utilize from being, you know, a college student, from obtaining my master's degree where I've, you know, worked on countless projects with other students. The job I'm in does require a lot of communication with, you know, external stakeholders like physicians, administrators. So there is that piece of communication. There's also an analytical part of it as well, you know, developing reports, putting together the findings, communicating systemic issues to our department. So I think it's more again about the softer skills that kind of have been gained through, you know, my education. But I could certainly see that the job can be done, you know

you know, going right from a CPC. And then gaining the skills on a job would be key. Okay. All right. You completed the AAPC online training. I believe it was it online? It was. Okay. And you said it took you three months to get through the program. Yep. That's that's fast. Tell me about that experience. How much time did you put in each night? How did you schedule your life around your studies? Well, pretty much, I was in a spot where I was working a job and I was just eager to move on and do more. I had a young family at the time. You know, I was just looking to advance in my career. So when I, when I knew there was an opportunity, and I know this kind of might be a little bit unique, right, there was an opportunity before the, you know, the certification, but I knew there was a potential opportunity. So what happened is I went, like I said, I went home, signed right up for the course, spent three months. I pretty much, you know, outside of my job, pretty much shifted all of my attention to the course because I knew there was an opportunity to move into this job where I can, where I can, you know, take this CPC and then learn and grow from there and gain a lot more experience from there. So yeah, it pretty much was a complete shift for about three months. Um, I don't remember the exact times, but maybe, you know, some nights, two, three hours, just kind of covering each of the sections, taking the test, going over everything. So it was a fully immersed experience, for sure. And you landed in a practice exam

this out of the blue a week before you took the real exam. Some say that the practice exam is harder than the real exam. What do you think? Well, both were not easy. I don't remember specifically the practice exam, how hard or how it felt or how hard it was, but I just remember it being a great opportunity for just going in there and just kind of, you know, killing any nerves I might have going into the actual test. And I felt like that was really a testament to the AAPC, to be honest with you, because I've never had any involvement with the AAPC before I went to this meeting. I wasn't even a member at this time. And, you know, this woman nice enough to take me under her wing. I don't know what happened. I think I might have discussed, you know, I'm going, I'm going to be taking my test any times, sometimes soon. Do you have any advice for me? And just welcome to be in. You know, she had a coding course that she was teaching at a local, you know, a coding training center or, you know, local, you know, education center. Never met her before, never spoke to her before. I never, I didn't know anybody else at the meeting, but it was one of those things where it was like, it's just meant to be, and again, I think it's a testament to the AAPC and the networking opportunities that are available for the AAPC. I love that. So get out to your local chapter if you're watching this. If you've got one close, try to get over there. Mike

I'm curious. Do you know how your score came out on that practice exam? How I received the score? Or the actual score on the practice exam? Do you know what that was? Oh, you know what? I don't know. I can't. I actually don't remember how I did in the practice. Well, it must have given you confidence going into the real exam. Absolutely. Yep. Okay. And this is a question that comes up in the APC Facebook group occasionally is, how should I score? How do I know when I'm ready for the real exam? What kind of score should I see on the practice exam? Do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah, I would say, you know, if you're getting consistently, you know, 80% on these practice scores, I feel like you're ready at that point. Yeah, I just I think that that's a good benchmark to say, you know, I'm ready. What no no reason to wait till you're getting, you know, hundreds across the board. Yeah. You know, you'll never feel 100% ready. But as long as you feel ready enough, you know, go ahead and take it and you might surprise yourself. And I think that's what I did to myself. I, you know, I was thoroughly surprised I passed on the first try. I was prepared, I know that, but I did not have CPC experience, coding experience in any form really before I started the exam. So, I mean, you may not feel ready, but you might be more ready than you actually think you are. What advice or tips would you give to someone stunning for the exam? They may be in the APC online course right now. Any study tips that you might have? You know

I think the big thing for me was utilizing the resources that are available in the course. And I honestly forget the person's name, and I wish I remembered. It was quite a while ago. But there was somebody walking side by side with me throughout this course, letting me know, you know, where I went wrong, what is the opportunity for improvement, how to do that better. So just using those resources, I believe in the AAPC course, somebody is assigned to your course and they're available for questioning and help. And again, this person was another huge, you know, part of that success I had. Unfortunately, I forget the person's name. It was it was a long time ago. But just using that benefit, you know, AAPC is here to help and having that real person on the other end being able to guide you through the course I think was was absolutely key. As far as the courts, just going through it, you know, section by section, taking your time, make sure you're mastering each section, but you know, like I said, maybe 80% is a good benchmark and then move on to the next. Don't get caught up too far, you know, in trying to be perfect. It's a long test. It's a hard test, but you know, it doesn't need to be perfect either. Okay, okay. How about exam day? Did you have it? Did you do anything that you felt was unique to help calm your nerves and help you have a great exam experience? Be honest with you, this was back in the days when it was, you know

you know, at a facility. I don't know if everything is done now online or if there is an opportunity. But this was done at a facility, it was a six hour, six or six and a half hour exam. No, I don't know what I did that morning. I honestly don't remember. I had to drive about 45 minutes to the location because it was for me a timing. The earliest exam was a little bit more of a drive than say maybe a 15 minute drive to the local chapter. But no, I know, I just kind of put my head down and went right into it. I'm sure I was nervous. But once I got in there and I got going with the exam, I think I felt more comfortable, you know, going through the test. Awesome, that's good to hear. Preparation is everything, right? Yep. Okay. Now, I'm going to jump back into that first job. And we spoke about new CPCAs considering any role within a facility. What tips or advice would you give to someone, a newly credentialed member who was trying to find that first job beyond that? So keep your options open of the role, just get into the facility or clinic or wherever you're at. Any other thoughts on that path, Michael? Yeah, I mean, as I mentioned, I think, you know, first off, networking I believe is key. Most of the opportunities I've had have come through some form of networking. So attending the chapters, meeting people in the chapters, you know, that's that may be how you're going to get your first job, your next job, you know, that that may be very well the way that that's going to happen. So definitely network, keep that network available. You know

just taking that first step, you know, joining a health system. For me, it was about joining a reputable health system, right? Getting in the door, getting somewhere that I've, you know, kind of always looked at as a place I would like to work. And then, you know, then you can go in and prove yourself, right? You work for a few years, you get rid of the apprentice, I think it's after two years. I would say this, you know, say you're in a position that's counts receivable, coding, billing, take any opportunity to work on extra projects. Ask your manager, is there anything I could do to work on an extra project? That's gonna get you not only to shine right in front of your department in front of your team or your manager. You're also going to step outside of the realm of coding or billing and sitting in front of your computer and you're actually going to be meeting other people in your your organization. And that may also open doors. And that will also give you experience, right, in communicating and, you know, being accountable, maybe having a more analytical approach to your job, you know, because you're delivering, you know, your results from your project to another team or another department. So I think just getting in that job is key, but, you know, taking on more responsibility through projects and other things like that will be really attributed to your success for sure. And we live in a virtual world these days and we see more and more connections happening online. So if you're watching and you may not have a local chapter near you

you can connect with other professionals in the AAPC Facebook group. I have spoken with members who've literally found jobs of the relationships they've made through that, but also connecting with local coders in your area. So, Mike, I don't know if you do this, but if you're watching dress up your LinkedIn page, make connections with coders in your area as you search them out on LinkedIn, and ask questions, get to know them. All right. Mike, what's next for you? This is something that you and I have talked about. Just like, you know, careers going forward and looking for that next opportunity. Is there a credential that you have a mind that you that may interest you that you might want to explore? So to be honest with you, I just came off the CRC, right, the certified risk adjustment code credential. I don't have anything in mind just yet, only because I'm still utilizing that, you know, that certification actively every day in my current role. We're working heavily on a project with an accountable care organization, which deals with the higher hierarchical conditions categories and risk adjustment. So, you know, that to me was, that was kind of a natural next step for me beyond the CPC, because again, there was an opportunity to get involved in a project in that area. And I think that's going to be a, it's going to be more, it's going to be more predominant, I believe, in the coming years, right? Risk adjustment will be maybe, we'll see more of a shift to that type of payer, you know, payment process. But at the moment, I don't see, you know

you know, I don't know what my next step is, but I'm always looking to grow. The great thing about like coding and compliance auditing is it doesn't need to stop there. I think I've gained a lot of experience from this from this industry that can really be used in any area of the revenue cycle. So I think just moving on in the revenue cycle would be my next you know my next step. But you know right now it's you know just diving into that new, that new territory of risk adjustment. So kind of goes along with my, my thoughts of just taking on any projects, you know, extra projects beyond your job description. Go beyond your job description, and I think good things will really, you know, happen. So beyond health care, your work, your career, you have your family, but what else does Mike like to do when you're done with work, tell us about some hobbies you might have. Well, Alex, these days a lot of what I do is on the sidelines. I'm a soccer dad, three kids, and soccer. That really takes a lot of my time, but it's something that my wife and I really enjoy. You know, all three of my kids have been playing for quite a while now. So, you know, the hobbies are a little bit less at this time, but that's that's one of the things that we really enjoy. You know, just being there to support our kids, you know, socializing with the other parents and seeing our kids grow, you know, on the field and off the field has been it's been great. So . So that's what I'm doing after work these days. Awesome, that's plenty to keep you busy. Yes. Well, Mike

Mike, thanks so much for sharing your story. I'm sure that someone out there watching might connect and relate to your experience. Every journey is unique, it seems like, there's no cookie cutter approach into the journey of health care. Yeah, absolutely. I think everybody's different. Everybody has their own journey. But I would just, you know, advise anybody that is, you know, searching for that journey. Just get involved. Just start, get it started. Don't wait for the right time. The right time is probably right now. So, you know, just get going. You'll probably surprise yourself. Awesome. I love it. Thanks for sharing that, Mike. And as we wrap up, I'd just like to remind our viewers that you can watch Mike's interview on the AAPC YouTube channel as well as the AAPC podcast. You can find a podcast in your favorite podcast app by searching for the AAPC podcast. You can listen to Mike and many other stories about their journeys in the business of health care. Mike, thank you so much for your time. Thank you Alex. Appreciate it.

Welcome to another edition of I am AAPC. I am AAPC, Alex, and today we're with Maddie Oaksotry. Hey Maddie, how you doing? Good, how are you Alex? I'm great. And I was just speaking with Maddie about how we were connected and he does some work. Maddie, you do work with APC with our students and our training programs. Tell us a little bit about that. I would say for the past year, I started in around November of last year being a TA for the online CPC classes as part of the VILP program. So I assist the instructors and the TAs in helping them get through their class and, you know, successful tips and techniques of approaching their CPC examination and just kind of extra support for the teacher and for the students as they're going through those classes. All right, and obviously you must obviously have a history of being a coder, professional coder. Tell us about what you do now, where you work, and your professional life. Currently, I'm a code for the anesthesiology department at a large hospital in New York City. And I started there in December of 2020, but I'm fully remote, so I have a house about an hour outside the city. I only go into the office every so once in a while, but I got certified in 2020. So I made a big career change in the middle of 2020. So I've only been a coder for two years now, going on three. Wow, so we need to hear this. Where were you, what were you doing before and how did you end up here? Oh my, so my prior life decoding is very different. I'm a dancer

actor by trade. So initially when I left high school and I started on my career path, I got an undergraduate degree in biology and psychology. And when I was in undergrad, I started dancing and I just kind of fell in love with it. And it was kind of, you know, make or break it. Give it a shot. So I auditioned for a conservatory in Philadelphia and I went to a dance conservatory there for a year, two years and then I got accepted to NYU Tish for my MFA in dance. And so I was a dancer in New York City for a long, long time. But I started dancing late. I started dancing when I was 21 years old. It was one of those things where I just threw myself into it entirely. And through there, my career over the 20 years that I lived in New York City kind of evolved. It started out as a crunchy, granola, downtown, modern dancer. And then I moved more kind of uptown into the off-Broadway world, doing more physical dance theater, acting. And so I've done a number of off-Broadway shows. I've done two Broadway shows. And I started transitioning more into acting when the pandemic hit. So I was working on a play in March of 2020 and my entire industry got shut down. And so for a long time I had been wanting to get back to my biology

psychology roots in a way to sort of help facilitate my life as an artist and as an actor and as a performer. And I was always searching for something that I could do besides waiting tables and besides catering and that gig work that happens in between. And someone mentioned to me medical coding in a conversation throughout those years and it kind of always stuck in the back of my mind. And we were a week into being laid off from the pandemic. And the actors union that I belong to has an amazing organization called Career Transition for Dancers. And I was working with someone in there just kind of to get a feel of what else I could do and use the time that the pandemic was shutting me down for my industry to really launch into another career. And we talked about medical coding and it seemed like a good fit and I started doing research and I found AAPC and know, I love doing research. I love constantly educating myself and, and just that constant process of learning. And so I was like, well, medical coding seems to fit that for a tea. And I, I can really see myself doing that at least at that point it was you know as a thing that could be a dual supplementation for my my careers and artists and I was like you know I have all this downtime let's go for it so I signed up for the CPC self-paced study course in through a APC through a AAPC, in March of 2020. And I also took the medical terminology and anatomy courses. You know

I had a lot of that in my undergrad but it had been 15 years since I had really went back to my biology roots in my undergrad and so I was like, you know, it's just good to get that refresher. And I studied a lot of anatomy and my graduate worked with dance, but I was like, you know, anything that I can get that just can kind of help me transition and get those gears moving back into a different way of thinking, you know, I'll do. And, you know, we, there was nothing going on at the time. So I fully immersed myself into the CPC training program and I did the anatomy course, the medical terminology course, which I highly recommend the medical terminology course. I learned so much from that and when I went into the CPC training right after that it set me up for a world of success in doing that course. Just that background in those roots and root words and it just it was so helpful. And I was able to do all three courses in three and a half months. I just, I really just, I mean, there was nothing else happening. So it was around the clock, just immersing myself into medical coding. I had a goal in mind. I was like, you know, this is only going to last for three months, this pandemic and then I'm going to get back to acting. So I need to get it done before that. As we all know, it turned out a lot longer than three months. But anyway

I did the course training in three months. And then right around that time is when AAPC started introducing the online examinations. So I took my online exam and then I went right directly into Practicode after that. And I spent the next month just doing all 600 of those cases and three assessments. And I got my A removed the next month and then it was really time to start you know looking for a job after that but I I did everything in about four months but it was a very very different time and it was a very intense intense sit down of study. Well and I love that from what, I mean, your whole journey up to this point is online. You researched everything online and enrolled in the curriculum online online and just went for it. Did you participate or have any help from online communities at all? Yeah, so, you know, when I was in the self-paced study course, there was a teacher's assistant available for us and, you know, I reached out to them when I needed just a little assistance here and there, especially when we got to chapter 10, I needed some extra help and they sent me some worksheets and some just advice and training. And once I read through that material and I really got that help in the cardio chapter and chapter 10, something just kind of clicked. And it was through the help of that TA and the information they provided me that really just kind of got me over that hump. And from there, things just started falling into place as far as my training. And so when I was looking to become a TA

I really remembered that. And it was an opportunity when the opportunity came for me to be a TA. It was something that I really wanted to pursue and give back and help students because it helped me so much during that time. But I also found a really great community in the Facebook group. Through there I found tons of tips and how to tab my book. And if the tip wasn't through the Facebook group, it led me to a link that I could further research and explore. And so all that while I was really feeding off of that Facebook community. And through there, you know, I became really great friends, online friends with acquaintances with some fellow students who are also going through the course and one of which is got hired as a TA and who recommended me to Craig to become a TA and so those connections that I made through the Facebook group really helped me both in going through the course, after the course, that moral support you need when you're looking for that first job and for someone to take a chance on you. And then also just what I do now and supplementing my medical coding with being a TA for AAPC. Wow. So when you say Facebook group, you're talking about, I'm assuming the AAPC general Facebook group? Yeah, both actually. I mean, before I was certified, it was the general group. And then after I got certified, I still use that other, the certified members of Facebook group when I have questions or if I need to look at something

I work in anesthesia. So my coding skill sketch has to be across the board of all specialties. And there are a lot of times that I need to search for something and if I don't have to post a question, the search really helps me in fine-tuning other posts and discussions that have happened in the past and I can go and narrow down and get the advice that I'm looking for a certain code. Okay, okay. Now, I'm assuming you took the exam online. Were you ready for that at that time? I was. So, I, you know, switching over to online was such a, such a different skill set for me. You know, I came from a career and a background where everything was in person as a performing artist. The industry that I was in started to switch over to more self-tapes even before the pandemic kit. So I started getting used to incorporating technology more and more. But so when it came time to take the online exam, there was a little bit of apprehension for me. Sometimes electronics and technical aspects of things can cause a little bit of a hindrance and can cause some anxiety. But I felt as I looked through the materials and I read more and more through everything that was provided to me leading up to the exam, it was the only option that I could do at the time. There were no in-person exams available for me in New York City. And it's not for lack of

it's just the city at that time wasn't allowing in-person meetings. Everything was shut down. Everything was shut down. It wasn't a possibility for my local chapter to even hold an in-person examination. So at that time it was my only option. But you know, I was nervous a little little bit about the technical difficulties and things that could happen, but it went smooth sailing. I have three dogs and a cat. And so I had my husband take the entire family out of the house for the day and peace and quiet. And at that time, it was in two sessions. And I did it both in the same day to get it out of the way. I think I allowed myself an hour break in between the two schedule sessions at that time. And yeah, it went off without a hitch. That's great. Well, so here you are in the thick of the pandemic, it doesn't look like it's ending any time soon. You're now graduated. You have your certification, your CPCA, but obviously making your way towards having that removed. Finding that first job can be so tough sometimes. Tell us about that experience for you, Maddie. Yeah, well, I mean, coming from a performing arts background, as an actor and as a dancer, I faced a lot of rejection. I got told no many, many times before I got told yes. And so, um used to that stamina and determination and realizing that it was really a numbers game kind of in the beginning. You know, I was also fortunate enough, you know, I live in New York City, so the job opportunities and the amount of applications that I can apply to for positions near me is a lot greater than

you know, others who might be in different parts of the country, but it really was a numbers game in the beginning. And every day, I set a goal for myself to send out at least 10 applications. And it didn't matter what it was, as long as they required a CPC or there was something that could lead to my foot in the door of, you know, to a coding job. I applied for it. It didn't know, it didn't matter what it was. And I would say, as I was going through practicode and I still had that A on my name, the responses that I got for interviews or interest in my resume wasn't as high as after I finally had that A removed. So Practicode, when I finished it, you know, it wasn't that it got me the job, but once I finished it and had that A off of my credential, what it did was it opened the opportunity for more prospective employers to reach out to me to call me in for an interview. Okay. And so I would say out of every 50 applications I sent out, you know, it would maybe generate three or four responses of someone who was interested to go to the next level. And so it wasn't a little bit difficult at first because my entire experience before that was as a performing artist. And so it was finding that right person that would not only take a chance on me as a new coder, but also finding out what to do with me. You're this crazy artist who is an actor-dancer, like why are you you doing medical coding now? And so, it was a lot of soul-searching for myself of, you know

you know, realizing that I was at a point in my life and career that I was ready to make that change. And so, I used those first round of applications and those first interviews to keep building on each other. And it took a while for me to learn how to interview as a medical coder and not as Maddie the actor-dancer. So that took some skill set and some rerouting in its own mind. And then I had to, and then it was just all about finding the right fit. And through those application processes, I would say from I finished practicode at the end of July, so through August through November, I was set on finding a job. And through that time, you know, I would send out about 10 applications a day. And as I got better at fine-tuning my resume with the help of actual, the president of my chapter, she took it and she looked it over for me and gave me advice and helped me tweak it a little bit and some advice from other folks that I met on AAPC. You know I was really able to fine-tune my resume during that time and it was also fine-tuning my interview, and I was also fine-tuning the jobs that I was applying for and breaking it down into what, okay, what do I actually want? Because during that time, you know, I did get some offers, and I was at a position where I didn't have to take the first thing that came along right away and I was like

something just didn't sit right with some of them and I could tell that's not going to be a good fit and so I don't want to waste my time there yet and so I just kept putting it out and I kept putting it out there and eventually, you know, the right manager saw my resume. And the thing is, is there were sometimes, I would apply for multiple positions within a hospital. You know, I live in New York City, so there were many hospitals and all the time, that same hospital would have multiple different coding jobs coming up. And what I found that was really helpful is a lot of times those hospitals you can save your resume and you can save your application on their hospital hospital website and so you just keep checking that site for when the new one comes out and when that new hospital medical coding job would come out, I would send my resume. And so the hospital that I work out now, I must still apply to 15 other coding jobs. And every time one came up, I just kept applying. And what I found out was that there were different managers within that hospital that look at those resumes. So I finally found the manager in that hospital that said, hey, this kid, I want to talk to him. He seems interesting. And I want to see what he's all about. And if I had given up, you know, when I got my third rejection or no response from those resumes that I sent to that hospital, I would never be where I am now. So it was that constant just sending it out. And when the timing was right, it happened. But it did have to have a lot of, you know

you know, perseverance and dedication and working through those nose. And, I with my manager at that time. And she was like, you know, I think anesthesia would be a great fit for you having just gone through the course. You know, all of those different series of CPT coding and diagnosis coding or, you know, fresh in your head. And I think it's just going to really, you know, challenge you and encourage you to keep going. And I've been at that position now for two years and I see myself there for a very long time. I love coding anesthesia. And like I said, I have my hand in kind of all those different areas and it keeps me on my toes and it keeps me constantly researching and looking at things and yeah, I love where I am. Maddie, you're talking about your resume and I'd imagine it, it said CPC certification, but danced in this show, dance in this show, dance in this show, dance in this show. So you had that to overcome. And I guess it may, it probably had your side gigs and other things as well, but you had to prove yourself that you, I guess, work in a professional office type of setting. Yeah, and, and to me, a lot of it was also, how can I tailor my life experience and apply it to coding? And so one thing for me was, you know, coding, coding to me in a lot of ways is similar to acting and dancing in that we are telling a story through coding. And, you know, as an actor, when I get a script

I have to look at it and I have to break it down piece by piece and find those important bits that tell the story and That's what coding is coding is you're finding those important bits that tell the story of that encounter for that patient and so it was It was really finding a way that I could relate my past experience, set myself apart, make me unique, but also say, I do this, I've done this, I've done this in my acting career. And the same as, you know, dancing, as a dancer, I always strive for specificity, you know, and I wouldn't call it perfection, but, you know, those details. As a dancer, you have to, you have, you're constantly picking out those fine details of movement, and you're constantly refining, and you're constantly striving just to make it as specific as possible. And as we're coding, we're always looking for the most specific diagnosis that we can possibly find. And it's the same way with, in my acting career, you know, I was a swing in many shows, and a swing learns multiple roles in a show, and we go on with a moment's notice sometimes without any rehearsal. And so as a swing you have to constantly be changing. And so as coding we know the guidelines are constantly changing. Coding is constantly changing. So it was just another way that I could say I might not have done this

but I have done something like it in my other career and I can use those aspects and those skills for myself as a performer and it's going to translate to medical coding just give me a chance and I finally found that manager who said oh absolutely let's do it I love it I love Now, is the job you're currently in that first job still? It is, it's still that first job. And, you know, through that first job, you know, as time has gone on, my manager has given me more and more responsibilities, you know, one of her go-toes as far as coding. And I it you know I'm constantly learning and and it's also you know I work from home and there's a lot of discipline that comes from working from home and that's another thing that carried over from you know my career as a dancer and as an actor. It's really getting up, showing up for myself every day without, you know, someone, you know, watching over me, you know, of course, you know, my manager is there, but at the same point, like, there's a lot of trust and responsibility that, you know, our job entails and it takes a lot of discipline, especially when you're working home and remotely. And, you know, that was a big shift for me. I'm used to being out and about and with people and it was a shift. It's still a shift sometimes. When you started, were you remote right out of the gate? I was. So I had about a week and a half that I went into the hospital and did some training. At that time, the hospital coding staff were fully remote. They transitioned at the beginning of the pandemic and they were December

they were starting to come back, but just, you know, pockets here and there when they needed to. And so I would show up on some days and my manager would take me through things and show me. And then some of the trainings for EPIC, we use EPIC at my place of employment. Some of those were online, so there were three times when I would not have to come in and I could do the training online. And so yeah, I mean, for the most part, it was kind of a hybrid training. And then once, once I got up and running, I would say after about two weeks of that hybrid training here and there, I was fully remote at that point. And, you know, we really utilized Microsoft teams and zoom and those ways to really help each other. But it was also one of those kind of, let's do it. Yeah. Wow, that's amazing. What a great story. I love it. And at some point, through all of this, I mean, it's hard to believe that we're approaching three years since the pandemic really hit. And at some point, you stepped into the APC role by being a VILT, a teaching assistant. How did that happen, Maddie? Yeah, so that came about through one of my fellow, one of the fellow students who was also going through the CPC course at the same time. And we kind of would share ideas and tips through Facebook. And we really just like kind of kept close through that time, especially when we were both applying through jobs. We were really a support system. We never met each other. You know, we're multiple states away from each other

but we just really were a support system for each other. And she became a T.A. And after I got a little further along in my job about a year, I was looking to bring in another source of income to supplement what I was doing, but I also just really wanted to help other students. I found through life, career, anything, when you are of service and are able to help other people, in essence, it always comes back and you learn more and you grow more. And so an opportunity came up. They were looking for another TA and she reached out to me and was like, I think you'd be great. For this, would you be interested? And at that time, it just happened to be that I was putting out into my universe that, okay, I'm ready to bring something else in at this point. My industry still wasn't, my other industry still wasn't up in booming. And so the opportunity to pursue artistic pursuits in addition to medical coding wasn't still viable. So I was like, yeah, let's do it. So I interviewed and got the job and I just came up on a year in November of assisting and that TA program has, it was brand, it was only about six months old for the online classes when I started. And so since then, we as a team and through, you know, the managers and through the staff at AAPC

we've really are continually inventing new ways to improve that TA program and really be a source for students and for help. And so it's been it's been going through a lot of changes and they're all good changes and it's going to keep going through changes and so it's also been nice to be a part of that and see that TA program really grow. When I first started I think there might have been six of us who kind of helped with all of the classes that were going on for those online. And now we're up to, I would say probably about 12 or 13 TAs. I'm not sure the exact number, but we've definitely doubled our roster of TAs and we're helping each other as we help students so it's a it's a community and that's really what I love about it. It's a community, building community, helping the future community at large of coders. Yes. Well and at some point through all of this too, you you earned a second credential. I did. So last year in December, I got my CANPC certification and I took that certification in person. At that point, I had to. They weren't offered online. So I've been both through both sets. I've been through the online exam process and through the in-person exam process. But I really loved medical coding for anesthesia. And so I really wanted to challenge myself to really get that certification and go deeper into the specialty that I was coding for. And that was, I've taken a lot of hard exams in my life. You know, I was, my undergrad was in biology and psychology. I took a lot of organic chemistry, P-chem, biochem

biochem, and I will tell you that CANPC exam was one of the toughest exams I've ever taken. Wow, wow. So that is the specialty for anesthesia coding. What does the CANPC stand for, Maddie? Certified anesthesia and pain coder, I believe. I'm not sure what the N is, actually. I'm sorry, I should know that. That's all right. That's all right. But it's interesting to see that you really wanted to dig deep and show that not only were you doing it, but you're certified to do that to back it up. Yeah, I think it's, it's, it's always been, I always have to be working at something. It's just kind of my personality, my, my, what I've always done is just striving to continue to do better. I feel like we can always do better. And so that was just kind of my way of saying okay I really love what I do so I want to further validate what I'm doing and continue to grow in it and hold myself accountable to the highest standard I possibly can. And that was, I felt at that time, you know, getting that certification and then, you know, maintaining it through my CEUs and it was really important. And I'm really proud. I was actually the first in my department to ever get the CANPC certification in the anesthesia department and so that was I I was really proud of that accomplishment. Well now usually I ask about hobbies and other interests but you have your your other profession. As you're building this profession, and you've done so well with it the past three years, where does dancing and acting fit into this now? Yeah, so at the moment, you know, I

I, when I first got certified, the industry was kind of shut down, so I was able to fully immerse myself in coding. And then when I started my job, it was also, you know, the industry started to pick up a little bit, but I was like, you know what, I really want this career to be a viable, consistent career for me. And so I really directed my attention and efforts in that first year of really being the best anesthesia coder I could possibly be and getting that certification. And in the second year, I started to allow more of those auditions for film and TV to come in. Film and TV is a kind of different ball game in that, you know, you show up on set, you shoot your scene for that TV show or movie a day or a couple days, and I can still kind of swing the medical coding around that. And so I've really just allowed myself to concentrate on the film and TV aspect of bringing that back into my life. But to be honest, at the same point, I was also making a location geographic change. I moved out of the city last year. My husband and I bought a house outside of the city, which is only by the help of becoming a medical coder and having that consistency in my life. So coding really changed my life. And so last year was really finding that balance of owning a house, being a homeowner, being a medical coder, and also this pursuit that continues of, you know, acting. It's one of those things of, like, you know, the ultimate goal for any actor or dancer is always Broadway. And the thing that I felt found is like, you know

you know, I worked so hard to get there. And when I got there, that first bow that I took on a Broadway stage was amazing. All my dreams came true. And then that second bow, while it was still exciting and I was living my passion, my joy, what I wanted to do. I took that bow and I was like, you know what, this is the same feeling I felt when I took a bow in my high school cafeteria when I was in shows. And so it was this kind of switch of like, I love what I do. I love being a performer and I love being an actor, but you know what, I can really do it anywhere and still get that same healing. So that's what kind of helped me entertain the possibility of bringing in another career. And so it's taken a wow for me to allow myself to realize that I can't have both again. And so this year, I had a lot of auditions for film and TV last year, but I wasn't open to allowing the universe to bring that in. There was, there was like a fear inside of myself that I was afraid that, you know, I put all this work into my medical coding and my job that I love and I'm good at. And if I let this other thing that used to be my main purpose in life creep back in, I was afraid that it was going to destroy all of this. And I had to come to terms knowing that, no, I can do both. I can still be a medical coder, and I can still be an artist. And so that's kind of my goal for the year, is to still maintain all of my commitments that I have with my job and my schedule. But those acting opportunities that come my way that I wasn't open to receiving last year

this year receiving. And so this year's all about finding that balance again of being a medical coder and still pursuing my art. And so that's where I am this year. So hopefully you see me on a TV or film screen again soon. And if it happens, I'll let you know to look for it. Well, you know that now that the cat's out of the bag that Maddie and the AAPC Facebook group is an actor and artist, people are going to want to know when you're on something. So you should just share that with the group. You know, hey, you check me out here. That'd be a lot of fun. Well, Maddie, is there any time for anything else besides your family and work? Yeah, I also love CrossFit. I do cross fit about four to five times a week. I try to get myself to class. It comes from that part of me of like, you know, being physical. And so I went from a job where I was on my feet acting and moving eight hours a day, six days a week, to sitting in this chair that you see here. And so that was a change. And so I needed that physical release. I needed to stay active. I needed to stay physical. And I found CrossFit's been a really great outlet for me. When I was in the city, I was fortunate enough with my job to be able to take to do CrossFit on my lunch break. So I would do my coding in the morning, my first set of coding, and then I would go and do CrossFit for an hour, and then I would come back and finish my coding. Where I am now, since I've moved outside of the city, I don't have that lunch option. So I do my medical coding

and then I go and usually take a 430 or a 530 crossfit class, and then I come back and I do my TA work. And then I'm also busy. I have three dogs and a cat. So it's quite busy around here. And so yeah. And then during the pandemic, I also started doing pottery. I started watching the Great Pottery throwdown or whatever it's called on HBO Max. And it was just kind of a way for me to have a creative outlet, but it was also just a really meditative space for me. And so since I've moved outside of the city, I haven't been able to do that, but that's also kind of a goal for me. I have a basement now in my house. I'm not in a New York City apartment. So I'm hoping within this year to also get a studio kind of just, you know, the basics, a wheel and stuff in my basement and use that just as another creative outlet. All right. But I think those things are important, especially as medical coders, sometimes, sometimes it can seem a little isolating, especially for someone who's come from a career and a background where I've always had to be out there. And so I find that human interaction and connection is very important. And my co-workers and I, we do that through teams and through Zoom meetings a lot through the day. But I still need that human interaction with people. And so I get that from CrossFit or and I get my artistic outlets through, you know, other things. But I think it's really important that as medical coders, or not even medical coders, but any profession that is working from home

that you really still have something that you can break away for at least an hour and just, you know, interact with people of something that you love doing and it gets you out of this. Yes. Yes. Well, Maddie, thank you so much for sharing your story. I would like it if you would leave us with a message to maybe a CPCA who is searching for their first job. What could you, what would you say to them to encourage them? I would say, you know, it's, it's really allowing yourself to be open to letting the universe bring that position in. I think it's really a mindset of determination and to keep going and pursuing all available routes possible, knowing that the right one is going to hit and happen at the right time. And I know that sounds a little, ooh, juzzi. But I really honestly believe that. And I think it's a lot about not comparing yourself to others. I think a lot of times if we compare it leads to despair and if we get to that route where we're despairing, it sets you down a different path than you're not going to be. But I think it's really about setting a goal for yourself. And that goal is a numbers game, I really think. And I think it's about, OK, I'm going to set a goal to send out five applications every day and just keep sending them out. And I think it's also, once you start getting responses and someone says, okay, I'd like you to come in for this interview, don't stop sending out the applications because there's a multi-process that happens. And for every job interview you get

send out five more applications. And for every next time you go to another, you know, level in the interview, send out five more applications. Always have more eggs in the basket to keep going to. I think it's really important so that as you're waiting to hear back from that interview or for that job, there's another one that might be coming up that you can look forward to you. So you're not putting all that pressure on waiting to hear back from that job, but you've got other ones that you have in the works. Yes. And I would say it's the same, you know, I would always recommend that to students too when they were waiting for the results to come back. That's a great time to use that energy and focus that you're nervous. Did I pass? Did I not pass? Yeah. something else and that next thing is getting your resume together, finding those jobs that you can send it out to so that as soon as you find out, hey I passed, I have my caudrential, boom, all you have to do is hit send. And you're using all of that nervous energy of waiting for your results to come in into something productive. So I think always doing that. And I think it's also living in a surrounding yourself with gratitude. And I know that's hard sometimes, especially when you're getting frustrated if you're sending out a lot of applications and, you know, the results aren't coming in or you're not getting called in for interviews. But if you can find the gratitude, even if it's just, oh, I had this interview and oh, my gosh

my gosh, I tailored that answer that I used to give now this way and I just feel so much better about how I'm presenting myself in this interview. It's always finding a way to keep yourself in some place of gratitude so that you don't let the fear and anxiety of searching for a job overshshadow that. And it works out. It's just you've got to keep putting yourself out there and making connections. It's all about making connections, especially, you know, within your local chapter or through Facebook. Even if that person doesn't have a job for you, they might be able to help you, you know, tailor your resume or do something and, you know, we're a community. We have to be and we help each other. And it's always just looking for that next proactive step, maintaining proactivity and not letting yourself become stagnant. I love it. Thank you so much. And I know there are a lot of CPCAs who will find energy and motivation from that. Thank you, Maddie. Yep. And I just have one more thing and it came up the other day and one of one of the classes that I'm TAing for and I was like, you know, I really want this to get out to the members who might be taking the class. And it was something that I pulled back on before and it was that compare and despair. Especially when you're in the online classes. I think sometimes, you know, some students are very proactive and wanting to like, you know, answer the questions that the instructor's getting out and some are setting back and I had a student recently reach out and, you know, we're multiple weeks in

there's only a couple weeks left in the class and I got an email and they felt like they just weren't doing very well in the class because they were comparing themselves to some of the students in the class who were a little bit more outspoken and the email came to me and it was kind of just a little bit out of the blue because when I looked at Blackboard and their progress, their grades are like one of the top in the class and they're excelling. But they started comparing themselves to the perception of the other students that they saw in the class and they started to despair and they got this negative connotation of how they were doing in class and it wasn't true at all. And so I think it also can sometimes happen as you get close to that finish line and you're getting ready to finish the class, don't let that self-doubt start to creep in. And I think it can sometimes happen as you know you start to get closer to that finish line and don't compare and despair like you got this and we're all here as a community to help you. I'm here as a TA to help you and so you know I wrote that student back and was like you're killing it like you're you're amazing in this class, so I don't know where this is, you know, coming from. And it's just that confidence boost that you need sometimes. And, uh, and, yeah, so like, as you get closer to the end of those finished lines and your goals, don't let yourself compare and despair and don't let that self-doubt creep in. Like, you got it, you know it. You're gonna get through it. Oh man, you know

you know, any of our students who have you as a teaching assistant is fortunate, Maddie, and that's inspirational and I love it. Well, Maddie, thanks so much for sharing your story. Stick with me just for a moment. As we wrap up, you can listen to Maddy tell his story on the AAPC podcast or view it on the AAPC YouTube channel. Find us at AAPC on YouTube or the AAPC podcast in your favorite podcast app. Maddie, thank you so much for your time. Thank you, Alex. Thanks for all you do. Thank you.

Hello and welcome to another. I am a PC. I'm Heather Johnson and I'm here talking to Wendy Cox. Wendy, thank you so much for taking the time. Thank you. First off, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Sure. I am a medical coder. I live in North Carolina and gosh, with my four dogs and my teenage son. And I think that's that's the gist of it. I enjoy spending time with them. Yeah. You were telling me before that you have a 17-year-old dog. How old are the other ones? Oh, 17, 4, 1, and 2. Oh, you got a couple couple puppies. Yes, well I have a 17-year-old Dodson, a four-year-old golden retriever, and then I have a two-year-old chihuahua mix, and a one-year-old chocolate lab, German Shepherd mix. The two youngest ones are foster failures. Yeah. Yeah, I was only supposed to keep them temporarily. Yeah, until I found homes form and I found a home form for both of them, my home. Yeah, I actually fostered dogs for a minute too and mine is a foster failure as well. You fall in love with them. It's easy to do. Yeah, it very easy. Yeah, well I love that. Okay, you're, are you from North Carolina or you're living there? I am, yes. Born and raised in North Carolina, born and raised in Fayetteville, and I currently live in Carthage, which is not too far from there, but it's Eastern North Carolina. Cool. I have not been, but I've heard that North Carolina is beautiful. You love it. It's my home and I couldn't imagine living anywhere else. Yeah. Okay, so you're in medical coding. Can you tell me a little bit about how you got into the industry

how long you've been doing it, and what your current role is? Okay. In 2005, I worked as a front desk receptionist in an internal medicine practice. And shortly after I started there, our medical biller left. And I was offered the opportunity to take her position and learn about billing. So for a couple years, there was the sole medical biller in the practice. And our physicians, we didn't necessarily code everything, the diagnosis codes. We did some coding of the procedures for them, if they weren't basic procedures or the ENM codes, you know, we would just review to make sure they were choosing the right ones. And it was probably a couple of years after that, I went into a hospital facility, worked in the physician billing accounts receivable, and also as charge master. And it was then that I decided that coding was actually the career I wanted to pursue. I had, I was, I was discussing how I started as a front desk receptionist. Oh yeah, that's right. Okay. And I was offered an opportunity to do the medical billing in the internal medicine practice. And I actually left there after a few years and went to a hospital facility and worked in their physician billing and accounts receivable department and then moved up to charge master. And it was it was really there doing charge master. As a charge master analyst

I decided that coding was the career I wanted to pursue. So it was when you were doing the charge master that you decided the medical coding was the direction you wanted to go. Yes. Okay. Can you tell me what credentials you have and did you get them then or had you gotten them earlier when you started billing back in 2005? In 2009, I actually received my first coding credential, but it was not through AAPC. It was through a different organization. And that organization is out of Texas and kind of just known, it's not a well-known coding or certification organization. So I knew that after a in the field, working at, you know, in physician billing, just looking at opportunities that were out there, that AAPC with a coding certification was the route I should go in. So I decided in 2013 I started studying for my, at the time it was a CPCO, the certified professional coder outpatient. And I actually started studying for that and my CPC. In April of 2014, I accepted my first position as a medical coder, officially as a medical coder with a hospital facility that's local to me. So I was really excited because I knew at this point, you know, that is the route that I wanted to go. That is the career. Coding is a very fulfilling career and it is, I knew that it was everything's falling in place if that makes sense. Yeah

I love that. So that was in 2014. Are you still with that organization now? I am not. No. I actually worked with that organization as a full-time employee for four years. And I left there. I took a full-time position with another hospital organization, but worked part-time at the one that hired me. So until December of, actually, last year. Oh, okay. Mm-hmm. And I have been, been now I have been with my current organization for five years. I just celebrated five years with them in March of this year. Congratulations. And what's your what's your current role? Like what's your current title? Well, it is interventional coder. And Yes, working with cardiac cath and interventional radiology. And is that something you're passionate about? Are you happy in this role? I love it. I love it. It's coding is learning something new every day, I feel like. But I feel like, you know, as a cardiac cath and interventional radiology coder, it's that it's heightened that what you learn every day is always something new. At least, you know, two things, three things, you're always learning. And I love it. I think that's one of the reasons why I like coding also is you are always learning something new. Yeah, I feel like every time I talk to coders, that's what they say. Like they're always up for the challenge, like challenge and just like yearning to learn more all the time, which I think is really inspiring. Yeah, it goes beyond just sitting behind a computer and and reading medical records all day. Yeah, it is challenging and it's rewarding. Yeah

of course. I think people don't recognize, I mean, outside of the industry that coding is not just about like, sure, it's about getting the payment right, but like when you're coding correctly, like it's better patient care, it's giving the provider the opportunity to, to like provide, provide like they have more time to provide better patient care and like it isn't just about like the revenue although that's important like coders hold the like facility together. I had a discussion with a couple people just over the weekend about my job and about working from home and about how important it was to have an atmosphere that was just like being in the office because, you know, I don't want to give them a condition that they don't have because I'm reading the medical record, but I'm distracted by something else. Yeah. I feel like it, like you said, it's just as important, you know, the quality of care, the patient care is just as important on our end as it is, if I was working at was working at the front desk or if I was working, you know, directly with patients in a other form. Absolutely. So do you work from home full-time? I do, yes. Do you like that? And, and also, is that as a result of COVID and how things changed or has that always been the case that you've worked from home? When I first started as a medical coder, I actually worked on site. And I did that for about three or four years. There were actually personal reasons why why I started working off-site. At the time, I had a teenage son who, well, he's still a teenager

but he didn't have any after-school care, and I needed to be flexible. So, I started working from homes so that I'd be here whenever he was here in the afternoons, that kind of thing. I love that your job allowed you that flexibility. I think that's so cool. And I think that's kind of a pro of medical coding in general. It's like you do sometimes have the, I mean, depending on the organization that you work for, but you have the opportunity to work from home so you can balance like parenthood and like the responsibilities on that end while also like maintaining your job. I think that's really cool. Yeah, I don't think people realize though, you know, people outside of the coding world, you know, we say that, that, you know, okay, we work from home and we have that flexibility. But sometimes, you know, I'm still working at 8 o'clock at night or on a snow day when nobody else is working. Yeah. Or maybe I'm working on a Saturday because I needed Tuesday to care for a pet or my son or something else. Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about when you were preparing for your APC exam? I know that a lot of people watching this maybe are nervous about taking the exam and what helped you along the way did you use study guides or the practice exams and kind of just like your tips for that? You know when when I purchased the study program through AAPC my first one I actually I went through the, which was a little different. I have a book that thick. Yes, show us. This is

this is my. Nice. And I have all the papers printed out but I did it online and at one point in time there were a PC instructors who were available to give us feedback if we had questions or wrong answers I don don't know if that's still, if they still do that or not, because I haven't went down that route. But the study guide has always been helpful. The practice exams, always helpful. They give you an idea of what to expect whenever you're sitting down for a test. And, you know, our coding books. Our coding books are, you know, where the information comes from. Right. Did you have them pretty marked up when you went in for the exam? You know, I can't say, well, I do have them marked up. Of course, you know, this is calves. I love to I still tab my book whenever I get it every year. Because it just makes it easier, you know, in real life and whenever you're taking your test to be able to find things very quickly. But notes, highliders, you know, everything that you can put, you know, in , that will help you that you're allowed to put in your book. Yeah. Definitely, most definitely, you know, put that information, you know, tab it, make notes, all that good stuff. Yeah. For your day-to-day role, do you prefer, like, hard copy books, or do you use, like, e-books? We use three-to-day role, do you prefer like hard copy books or do you use like e-books? We use 3M. I love 3M. I've also used true code in the past and I like it too. I mean, it's electronic version of the book. There are times when I do have to pick up my book though and find a code

I prefer the electronic, but I do have my coding books handy because there are times whenever I actually need to see it on paper and maybe see like the references around it. It's sometimes it's a little easier to see the guidelines in the book. Yeah. And I like using both though, but again, electronic books are definitely my preference. Here go to. Yeah, I think it's like a healthy, I think that's kind of most common right now is that people are doing like a little bit of both because the hard copy books are kind of what people were used to but they're recognizing the ease of the electronic and so there's just a there's just a little bit of both they like to use. Um, okay, is there anything else you would like the APC community to know, either people who are taking their exam for the first time, people who are thinking about medical coding, like a career change, anything, any advice, tips? I think that, remember whenever studying for the exam, you know, the information that you need to retain, that you need to study, it is provided to you in the study guides, the practice exams, the books that you have. Study, I've always heard and I don't know, I don't think I did either, but you know don't study the night before, rest. I've heard that. You definitely want to make sure, yep, you definitely want to make sure that you have, you know, your pencils and and your books. You to be prepared, but, you know, being prepared also means you're getting some sleep the night before. It is a long test. Any test that I've taken

and I've so far taken three with AAPC. Any test that you take is definitely long. It's definitely nerve-wracking. You're in a room with other people. It's quiet, and you're sitting there for four hours. But again, study the material that's provided to you. Take those practice tests. And any answers that you get wrong, read the feedback. Understand the feedback that's given to you. Understand the concepts not just the question and answer or the question and the right answer. Do you feel like what you learned from studying for your exams prepared you for your job? Yes, yes, I do. Yep. That's awesome. I think it prepared me for my job. As we all know, it doesn't, it doesn't 100% prepare you for your position documentation and that kind of thing. Yeah. But it does, it does prepare you for getting a role as a medical coder. Yes. Yeah. Awesome. And anyone who is looking for a position in medical coding and they're getting frustrated maybe because they're newly certified and they can't find anything. I tell them, you know, to keep, if it's something that they're passionate about, if it is a career that they want to pursue, then don't give up, pursue it. There are opportunities and there are opportunities out there. You know, people get into coding and they don't want to leave. Yeah. They so, but it's growing and there are there are opportunities coming available all the time. Yeah, definitely. I love that. OK, Wendy, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us. And give all four of your dogs kisses for us. I will. Absolutely. All right

have a good one. Thank you, you too.

Welcome to another edition of I am a PC. Today we have Pam Brooks with us who is featured as a member of the month in our May 2022 issue of health care business monthly. Pam, how are you? I'm doing great. How about you? Alex, thanks for having me. Oh, you bet. I'm excited to learn more about your history and career in the in the health care field. And I know we've talked at past conferences and I know you've been a member of the National Advisory Board. So you have a long history with AAPC. But before we get to there, why don't you tell us a little bit about how you fell into the career of medical coding and the business side of health care. Sure, I'd be happy to and fall into it is really an apt phrase. My first career choice was actually fashion. When I left high school and you know really long time ago I went to a program that was a fashion merchandising program where I did a little bit of design, display, actually did some modeling and it sounded like an awesome idea and a lot of fun, but then you know, you may know that I'm originally from Maine, live in Maine. And Maine is not exactly the fashion capital of the world. So although there was work in retail, it wasn't very exciting. And so I did it for a little while, I didn't enjoy working nights, holidays, weekends, and I wanted kind of a regular life. So I actually went to work for a factory and I worked in a factory for eight years, and I got to say, one of the things that I learned in that kind of a work environment was how to be

what's the word when you try to streamline things I was much more efficient I guess with my actions and so when I got into production coding I did extremely well because I was able to move from one case to the next, you know, with that mindset and place. I got into health care after the birth of my boys, my oldest one was quite premature and I ended up having to kind of dook it out with the insurance companies in order to get bills paid and figure out whose insurance was primary and secondary and it was very interesting to me and I kind of stored that in the back of my head for a while. Once my kids were a little bit older and I'd had about all I could have of Barney and Mr. Rogers on TV, I decided, you know, I really like to go back to work. At the time, I couldn't get back into the factory that I had worked in and I didn't even think I really wanted to do that anymore. So I looked in the paper and said, gee, I wonder what kind of jobs are out there and one that I saw quite frequently was for medical assistant. And I thought, you know, health care that might be interesting. It's recession proof people, you know, people get sick and you know, maybe that would be for me. So what I did was to sign up for a two year program at a local community college with this thought perhaps of becoming a medical assistant. Well, I learned really early on that the idea of touching people wasn't really for me. And so I found that I really liked the back end, the business end, the insurance, the practice management

that sort of thing. And so I switched my major from medical assistant to medical office management was lucky enough while I was still in school to get a job in a family therapy practice where I really got my teeth into billing and some coding accounts receivable collections, front desk. So I had a nice opportunity while I was still in college. Once I graduated, I landed a job as a practice manager for an eating disorder practice and I was there for seven or eight years. And it's still a topic that very much fascinates me and I did a presentation actually recently at HealthCon on eating disorders that was pretty well received. Once I got into the health care business in mental health, I realized after a period of time it was, I needed a change. And so I went to work for a community hospital in their billing department, which was a little bit of a, you know, downward move, but I just I kind of wanted to think about what what was out there in the world of health care and whether or not this was kind of what I wanted to do. So while I was working as a biller I had an opportunity position opened up and coding. I didn't even know what a coder was. Didn't have any idea what they did. But one of the first things on my first day that the woman that trained me said is that coding is one of those fields that if you learn it, learn it well and take advantage of every opportunity that comes your way, you have no idea where this will take you. And I always think back, you know

you know, when I was asked to be on the advisory board and when I was on the chapter association board of directors and have done other activities and work for AAPC. She wasn't kidding because I never could have imagined a career in the way that I've had on that very first day as a coder that I didn't even know what I was going to be doing. So they taught me E&M and they taught me coding. I sat for my exam and moved my way up to coding manager and then I managed the team of coders for both sides of the house, the facility, and the professional side. I had a team of auditor and educators. I had for a brief time a team of documentation improvement specialists. So I've had an opportunity to work in a big piece in revenue cycle with a focus on coding in compliance and it has been a fabulous career. And what is your role now? I currently work for Maine Health, which is a health organization in Portland, Maine. There are, I believe, 12 facilities, nine hospitals, largest organization in Maine and in northern New England. And my title is manager of regulatory billing compliance. So essentially my team and I manage all of the internal compliance reports from a billing and a revenue cycle perspective for all of the hospitals and other facilities. We have a nursing home, we have home health at the main health corporation. So it's been, you know, moving from a pro fee quota today to being able to do this kind of work facility wide has been really

really interesting and there isn't a day that goes by that I don't learn something because you just can't always, you can't know it all. Yeah, and how does APC fit into this ttourny where it sounds like you had started this path and found AAPC later. Is that true? That is true and actually when I was first coding they had just started our local chapter that was in the area that I was working. It was the Seaco Stover, New Hampshire chapter. They had just launched that and I think it was two or three years actually before I got involved in going to the meetings. But as soon as I did, I realized that this would be an opportunity, not only to meet other coders in the area, but also, you know, to receive resources and to have the opportunity potentially to meet people from across the country. And so as time went by, I became more active in my local chapter. I served on the Chapter Association Board of Directors. I've participated in a number of projects that AAPC has asked for, as in my role in both the National Advisory Board and Chapter Association Board of Directors

and found that as I met people and broadened my scope of work. I had virtually a colleague or an acquaintance in every single field in the industry and almost always when I'm faced with a question that I'm not really sure about I have I can phone a friend. I have somebody that I can call that if they don't know the answer they know somebody who will and that has been probably as valuable as anything else that I have acquired during my career that those relationships that I've gained at AAPC have made all the difference in the world. Wow, now it sounds like serving on the local level is really was really the catalyst that led you down serving nationally. Absolutely, no, and I'm one of those people with the, you know, that has to be a leader and and so, you know, these our local chapters really do struggle to find individuals, you know, who will step in as officers and I didn't mind doing that. But, you know, I recognize the risk of having the same people do the same things over and over and over again. I always encourage people, especially new quotas who ask me, what do I do? We'll get involved in your local chapter because it is a fabulous way, not only to meet people to get your name out there, but actually to gain some, you know, some leadership and managerial skills that you know, you might not think you need but you probably do. So when I got involved early on, that really was the catalyst to bigger and better things and the more I got involved in AAPC

the bigger and better my career grew. It's fun to hear you talk about earlier. You mentioned just when you started down this path that you could never imagine that it would become what it has become. And the, your mentor to others and people look up to you now and look for it to you for insight and guidance in their careers and that has to be very fulfilling. It is fulfilling. I think one of the things I'm most proud of is are all of the staff that have worked with me over the years. I had a program for a while where I was able to hire coding apprentices and bring them in to do basic diagnostic coding and some charge entry back in the day when we still had that sort of thing. And to watch them learn from each other, support each other, become excited about their certifications and getting more certifications and learning more and cross-training, you know, I have to say, you know, without exception, everyone that I've had the opportunity to work with in this particular field have all been, you know, the utmost in professionalism and it's, you know, it's a source of pride for me to see individuals who worked for me early on, going out and working in places, you know, like Pricewaterhouse or working for large hospital organizations and having, you know, really exciting roles, careers and positions. It just, you know, does my heart good. And, you know, like my friend told me, the woman that hired me, you know, you don't know where this can take you. It can be a great second income or it can be a career where you can make it an excellent living. And

you know, you just, I think you just need to decide where it is you fit, and know that there is a way out there to make those things happen for yourself if you just, you know, trust your your instincts and take any opportunity that comes your way. I know the national office, the AAPC national office has relied on your expertise in different capacities over the years. Are you involved in any committees or helping with education or anything now? With AAPC you need. Yes. Yes. Yes. Um, Yeah, I am on the education committee for health con. So for all of the conferences, either at our regional or national, I work with Toy White and with a team of other coder auditor educator leaders in the industry. And we solicit and select speakers for healthcine based on what our members have asked for and also based on whether they've spoken before and you know how their scores were. And also based on, you know, what we see emerging in the industry as topics that we can't live without. So that's a big chunk of what I'm doing right now with regards to AAPC, but there have been other things I've done as well. Okay. Now, tell us about the certifications that you hold, Pam. I hold the CPC, which I got in 2003, I think, and then, I don't know, a handful of years later, I got the COC because I was working not only as a profee coder, but also did a lot of coding and managing for my outpatient facility team. I will never sell myself as an inpatient coder. That is a skill set that I only know enough to be dangerous. But the two, it did, you know

you know, the CLC did give me some great overview of how facility coding and billing is done. And when I set for both of those, it was five hours and 45 minutes I think and it was the 150 questions. I don't think they switched the time and they switched again apparently until after I sat for both of those exams and they are hard. Well what one was the most difficult of those two? I think the CPC for me was the hardest because I didn't know what to expect. I knew I wanted to pass the first time. I took the PMCC course and it was in person 16 weeks with actually one of my mentors who I'm now fortunate enough to work with Lori Desjarden. She taught me to code and she procted my exam. So I had taken the 16 week course and studied and actually my husband took the kids away for the weekend so that I could spend the whole weekend just kind of going over my books and rereading all of the guidelines and making sure I knew where everything was. I left there knowing I had done really well, but it was before we got scores. So I know I passed, but I don't know if I passed with 70, oh, the 92. Yeah. And the C. O. C. I took a number of years later. I don't think I studied as hard, but I did take a boot camp, a one day boot camp the day before I sat for the exam because I sat for it in Vegas. And that one day boot camp kind of filled in some of the blanks that I didn't realize I had missed. So I think any opportunity you have to take coursework, study tests, study guides, boot camps

any of that from AAPC is really the key to success. And I always encourage people to do that. If you're serious about passing that test, you have to, you have to do the studying and do the work. Okay, all right. I was going to ask you what would, what would you tell a future examinee and really that just grasp on to, anything that you can to learn what is about. Yeah, well, I think it goes without saying you have to have your anatomy, physiology, terminology, really solid under your belt. We need to have that, those words and phrases in the front of your mind. The test isn't so much about knowing how to code as it is understanding the structure of the books and the basic guidelines for each area in both CBT and ICD, but also understanding the content of the Hicks Pix 2 book as well. There are multiple choice, meaning that two of them, two of the answers are totally ridiculous and the other two are really close. The key to passing those tests is knowing enough about those books to be able to find the correct information in order to select the answer that most closely matches the question. And there were some questions on both tests actually that I was able to answer right off the top of my head because I knew I knew the rationale I knew the answers but when we're being asked about codes simply going to the section in the CBT book and looking at the code description is almost always a guarantee that that language is going to point you to the correct answer. So it's not about being able to know that stuff, you know

you know, through rote memorization. It's knowing where to find that information in your book that is going to, that is going to cause you to be successful and taking that examination. Okay. Now, I bet Pam that you would have had a perfectly great career even without your APC certifications. Then we see and we've learned that your membership at NAPC has helped you become a mentor and be seen as a subject matter expert, which you are. How did your certification for certifications help you professionally? Well, one way was that in my organization, that certification was a requirement, you know, so what I'm finding and what I hold with my own team is that there must be at least one certification in place in order to even apply for any of the jobs in my department and actually I believe also for any of the jobs in the coding departments throughout all of Maine Health and I know other hospitals and medical practices expect the same. And also including potentially other specialty certifications like CPMA or the medical specialty in which the quota will be working in order to make sure that they have that level of expertise. So I mean, needing to have their certification was actually one factor, but, you know

you know, the requirement to keep up that certification through education was for me an opportunity to go to conferences. I was fortunate enough in all of my work to have a decent education budget and so almost always was able to be able to go to either national if they were on the East Coast or regional conferences in order to get that information. I'm not a great online learner. I find it really difficult to stay focused. So for me, being in person, being able to network, being able to go up and speak to the speakers after their presentations, being able to be in the room with people who are having the same questions and problems that you are with the same kind of coding scenarios is so invaluable. And without certification, I wouldn't have needed the education and wouldn't have had the opportunity to go to the conferences, which I tell anyone, I don't care if you have to forego a vacation. It's totally worth it if you're sincere about your career and you're serious about, you know, moving ahead. It's money well spent and opportunity of a lifetime, I think, if you get the chance to go even at least just once. All right. So yeah, we have conferences all over the US, a national, and we typically have two regionals, and you have definitely had experience at those and a great, great energy at our conferences. Yes, they are. And I'm always surprised to see how big they are, especially the in person one, certainly before COVID, they're a little less

but the hybrid model has made it a lot easier for individuals to get that conference experience without actually having to get on a plane, which for most of us is generally required. So I hope that continues. I think it's a great way to bring that effort and education to people who otherwise wouldn't be able to attend. But I really am looking forward to Denver because I, you know, I want to see people in person again. That's right. That's right. Well, just going back to how certifications have helped you, was there a time early in your career before you received your APC certification that the industry maybe didn't seek certification so much and then as you got into the early 2000s, it became more necessary. Yeah, I mean, if you don't like change, then health care's not the place for you. And as time goes by, this business of health care is becoming far and far more complicated. It's expensive for small private practices, you know, to stay solvent. And one of the things I noticed fairly early on in my career was that a lot of private practice was a lot of private practices expected their quotas to have the specialty certification because they knew that if they didn't, they were at financial risk. It used to be years ago, even when I first started working that you really could hire somebody who was reasonably smart to go work in your back office and get your claims out. And that was, that was, you know, back in the early 90s, when before even APC and before quotas were actually a thing. But, you know

you know, over time and I each year when the proposed rules come out, I think, you know, how am I ever going to learn all of this and how am I ever going to keep it all straight? And I think health care organizations and their executives have realized that certification is a must. We, you know, the bottom line really depends on people with the expertise that we gain through AAPC is is the catalyst for a decent bottom line and without that, you know, our organizations are at risk and so the expectation is that you know if you're going to hire somebody in your revenue cycle, they need to be certified. Okay. Now Pam, we've spoken a lot about students and this starting point for people in their careers. How about those who already have established careers but they're maybe looking for that right niche for them. You've had a lot of different roles you mentioned that you, you have friends and just about every facet in the business side of health care. And I'm sure there might have been a time or two where you're like, oh, I accepted this position and maybe it's not what I love. How would you recommend an experience coder to find that specialty that resonates with them? Well, I think one of the most helpful things a quota can do is to try to expose themselves to other arenas in health care. So it used to be when you landed a job, you stayed there for the duration, you know, you went to work, you know, when you were 18 and you left when you were 65, where you go watch and that was how it was done. That's no longer an expectation in health care. In fact

I think I read recently is that the average 10 years about two and a half years. And so more and more employers are not expecting their staff to, you know, to spend their lives working for them and so it's not unreasonable after a year or two to say, you know what, this might not be for me and it's okay to make those kinds of moves. Now moving from one type of specialty into another is probably most easily done if you're in a hospital setting because you often can have the opportunity to, you know, job shadow or, you know, volunteer to to be cross trained. I think that if somebody is coming from a totally different industry, like for example, you know, they might be working in retail and decide that, gee, you know, this, I've seen these ads for medical coding and billing and wonder if this is something for me. I always encourage people, you know, to do their research to make sure that they understand what they're going to get if they're going to pay for coursework and classes and what the expectation is. I encourage them to look at the job opportunities, to talk to people in the field. I've had many, many people call me and email me over the years asking me that very question. I think I want to be a medical quota, what do you think? And so as much as I love and enjoy having new quarters join the field, I also don't ever want to give anybody bad advice. And so what I say is make sure you know what you're getting yourself into. It's a sedentary job and so for somebody who's on their feet all the time, you know, it likes a busy environment

it might not be for you because many of us are seated right here for an eight hour day and then some. I also talk a little bit about, you know, often it's difficult to get a coding job right out of the gate so be prepared to look at other areas in the revenue cycle where you might gain some experience to get your foot in the door. I've also had questions from people with with babies and children who think that this might be an opportunity to work from home. But I always explain is that yeah, you know, you would likely have the opportunity to work from home, particularly in this environment, but you will likely be held to accuracy and productivity standards and so you need to be able to figure out how you can do that and at the same time, you know, provide for child care if you have to do that. And so a lot of those conversations that I have with people are eye-openeres, but I would rather somebody come into the industry with their eyes open and have a good start to a great career that's be, you know, to dive in headfirst and then get incredibly disillusioned and angry when they find out that, you know, it's not quite what they had hoped. Yes, yes. Well, what area of the revenue cycle excites you the most? You may not even be doing it now. Is there something that you're just like, I, I cannot stop reading about this. I love it. It's one of my favorite things. I've always enjoyed teaching physicians and that's not something that I do quite so much anymore. You know

I provide the recommendations and the regulatory guidance to the people who teach the physicians and they develop their own education plans. But I really did enjoy doing that. I did it for quite some time fairly early in my career. I like the compliance piece of it. I like reading the regulatory guidance. I know I'm a ginormous nerd, but that's okay. But I enjoy, when somebody comes at me with a question, can we do this and just going out to, you know, the different sources, you know, the code of electronic federal regulations or going to the Medicare sites or, you know, the Medicaid sites and looking for coverage determinations and guidance with regards to can we do this or not and how what is the best way to do this and what is the compliant way to do. So that research piece is kind of what I like to do right now. I do a lot of it. It seems like that's a trend. Is coders, they love to investigate and be in information and as you mentioned before it's always evolving so you kind of have to be that way. Yeah, you do, you know, CMS changes their mind every couple of weeks and then certainly at the end of every year, you know, the, the federal register is published with all the changes related to inpatient outpatient and physician services with pages and pages of discussion that you know is incredibly interesting but you know most of us just do not have the time to read that from cover to cover so we kind of pick out what we believe is going to be of interest or need for us to know and then we go from there. But yeah

there's no lack of information out there. You just need to know where to find it and know what is reliable. Okay. What does Pam like to do when she's not in her career, not in medical coding and work. Oh, so what do I do outside of work? Yes. I'm actually a stained glass artist. Oh, wow. Tell us a little bit about that. How did you get into stained glass artist? I get into that. I had always been interested in glass. I always like to watch the glass blowers at the State Fair and I just I thought, you know, glasses and art medium was just fascinating to me. And I always liked stained glass windows and stained glass, you know, pictures and things that I saw in craft shops. But my local high school actually offered one year a class in stained glass. I think it was a six or eight week course at my local high school. I was tickled to death because I couldn't believe my fortune. So I took the class and learned some of the basics. And then that evolved into my, you know, just visiting different glass studios, talking to the artists, learning the techniques. YouTube has been a wonderful resource and even though I've been doing this in a 15 or 20 year, I always learn something new, kind of like coding, you learn something new every day. And I enjoy doing flat panels. I don't care for three-dimensional artwork, but I do a lot of flat panels. I tend to lean towards either geometrics or fantasy pieces, you know, fairies and dragons and that sort of thing. And yeah, it's been a great hobby and I do that at my

I have a studio at our house in Maine. And then I'm actually in Florida right now where we have a small, very small little winter home. And here I go fishing. I fish. Yeah. So. Like big fish, like when I think of Florida fishing, I see people with like swordfish and all these big crazy things. Yeah, I've not pulled anything that big out of the water. We fish the Indian River, which is this we're right next to the Sebastian Inlet. So it's the intercoastal waterways. We're in between Cocoa Beach and Vero Beach, actually. And so we fish the river, rarely go outside. And you know, there's all kinds of variety of fish in there. And I've not caught anything, any bigger than maybe like, you know, 12, 15 inches. But there are some big fish there and hopefully I'll get one one of these times. Yeah, well sounds like a relaxing hobby. Just you and your husband? It's great hobby. You're outside and it's, it's, it's just a really good hobby and it's not just for men. It's fishing is for women. Well, tell me about your stained glass R. Is that something that you sell? I've commissioned some of it. One of the reasons I don't like to sell my glass or commission pieces is that a lot of times people will come to me with an idea that I just go, oh, I don't want to do that or I don't think this will translate well and I'll sometimes say, you know

you know, here's what I can do and here's what you're going to have to live with. Because a lot of times people will come to me with designs that have lots and lots of little pieces and that's really not what stained glass is. Stainglass is using bigger pieces and the glass textures and colors suggests the detail. So I often don't offer to do pieces for people. I usually will do a piece every year for the two local chapters that I'm involved with to raffle, either at their main mania or at their conferences. I give a lot of pieces away for family members for holidays and things like that. So yeah, it's it's not really a business because then it's you know, then I'm worried it might become dreary to do. It's a hobby. So I do it because I love it. Yeah, making everything a business can take the fun out of things sometimes. That's what I'm afraid of. And so, you know, I have sole pieces, but there are pieces that I have made and said, you know, this is for sale if you want it. Otherwise, I'm just going to hang it up. All right. Well, Pam, thanks so much for joining us today. Telling us a little bit about yourself. And if you haven't read her article yet, visit or read your latest health care business monthly than May 2022 issue, you can find that on the AAPC website website or many of you have that mail to you and so take a look and read about Pam and Pam one last question. If for someone who is considering this career path, what is the what would you ell them

what kind of words of encouragement would you get them? I would encourage anyone who wants to enter this field and make this a career that they never dreamed of by making sure that every opportunity, no matter how minor or insignificant it might seem to take advantage of that. So even if you're asked to sit in on a special project or do another type of work or, you know, maybe fill in for somebody and it's something that you might not think is your job or anything that you interest that would interest you do it anyways because the more you know the more effective you'd be and the more insight you have with regards to you know this particular industry and I think that you know if you try to be the best coder, bill or whatever it is that you do, that you can be, only good things will follow. Awesome. Thanks so much, Pam. Pam, you hang on with me just for a minute. For those watching, you can listen to Pam, tell her story on the AAPC podcast. Just go to your favorite podcast app and search for the AAPC podcast and you can listen to Pam as you're gardening or doing chores around the house and her story and many other inspiring stories that and you might just pick up something that leads you to your next your next path in the in your tourning health care. Pam thanks again and everybody have a great day. Thank you Alex.

Welcome to another edition of I am AAPC. I am AAPC, Alex and today I have with me. Dina Mellon. Dina, thank you so much for being with us today. Tell us about how you found your way to the medical coding path. Well, I, my first husband was a physician and I worked in his office as a primary care physician in internal medicine. I always say that was my kindergarten education into this arena and I found that I love the whole reimbursement part of things and just kind of like somebody said you all of a sudden feel like you're getting sucked in or pulled in back when I started, of course, like the other people who spoke, we did everything by hand, there was no EMR, we felt that it was by form, by hand. And one day in this primary care office, which was my ex-husband, I got a call from a company who called themselves Metair. And this is way back, this is in the mid-80s. They wanted to know if I would be interested in working with them on a pilot program called Electronic Claims. And I was like, oh, that sounds interesting. So we communicated back and forth, and it was, at that time, I marked Blue Shield was helping to formulate and initiate this new program of electronic claims, and they asked me if I would be on the other end. So anyhow, long story short is that was the beginning. Shortly after that, I went out of my own and left that primary care office. Also, side of mine, I got divorced, but it also helped me to then recognize that, hey, I had a career. I then, in the, this was the early days AAPC had really just started. Wait a second

how long have you been in AAPC number four? A long time. Well, we're 35 years old this year. Well, probably pretty close to that time. One of my colleagues, some you may know, Faith Marieo, well Faith and I decided that we were going to get our coding certification because we were working for a consulting company at that time. And so we studied together and I remember vividly we took our exams at Penn and you know how hard the exam was but that was really the beginning of my journey and through AAPC. I never coded all day long, like many of you. I found that I love the reimbursement aspect and that I was probably good at it. So I went very quickly and instead of continuing to work for somebody, started my own billing company way back when, and it continues today. And I've been very blessed, always, always, always kept my certification because even though I don't code, I find it invaluable and I have credibility when I say to the providers, you've insufficient documentation. If I haven't said that a gazillion times, I wish I had a penny for every time, I've said that over the years. But I have the certification, and it was through AAPC, that may really continue this way. Ladies and gentlemen, Dean, thank you so much.

Hey everybody, I'm Heather Johnson with AAPC and I'm here with Gabriel. I don't want to mess up your last name. Tell me how to say it. Oh, a fom to. And we're we're going to talk about this is our I am AAPC interview. So Gabriel. I don't want to mess up your last name. Tell me how to say it. Oh, a Fante. And we're we're going to talk about, this is our I am a PC interview. So Gabriel, tell me a little bit about yourself, like where you're from, where you live, pets, food. We'll get into all the professional stuff in a second. But I just want to get a better understanding of who you are. So I was born and raised in Puerto Rico, a little island in the Caribbean, hopefully maybe don't know where it is. So I was born and raised there and after Hurricane Maria, I was with a power for eight months. So I decided to move to Florida. And I'm living here since then, since 2018. And very happy here, I like it a lot. And my favorite food, I would say, very American, like pizza and burgers. Yeah, I love it. Even though, you know, I'm Puerto Rican, I'm not very into rice and beans, so I rather have like a chicken tender or something like that. You speak in my language. Pizza and chicken tenders all day. Yes. That's so fun. Okay, so can you tell me, first of all, you have a ton of credentials. Oh my goodness, yes. Go ahead and just give just give us the list. Too many I think. Sometimes I cannot change to use all of them. But one of the reasons I have them is because you know I have been very lucky I would say like most of my employers, I have been very lucky

I will say, like most of my employers, they have been very, you know, into continuing education, pushing employees to get more certifications or education, continuing education. So that's the reason I have so many. And also, every time that I see for one of them I learn a lot. Like it doesn't matter how many years you have been doing this every time that you see for one of those and I think that's what I like about it to like to have that many is because you learn a lot just studying and preparing for those exams. But yeah, they're like around 15 if I don't, if I don't count, you know, the RN, the nursing license, but yeah, so like 15. I want to hear them. I think you should. You can be a change. So let me see. Okay. I'm gonna start with a CPCthe CPCO4, CPC, CLC, CIC, CPMA, CRC, CCC, I call it this one chunk, which is the hematology and cology coder credential. And then I have CCS, CCSP, CDIP, CDO, CDI. Oh my goodness, too many. Keep going. I think you're at 13. Oh my goodness, really. So let me see another one. Did I say CCDS and CCDSO? I don't think so. So that's the two. The last two. Okay. And then did you also say you're an RN? Yes. So RN here, Florida, New York, and also in Puerto Rico. Oh my gosh. And my understanding is, are you getting your master's? Did you already get your master's? No, I already got it. It wasn't. I did it, health informatics and analytics. And so I am very, that was the first time that I study something that I really passionate about because I have to study also business administration, which is

which is, I am not very into it. And also I did nursing, of course, but this was my first degree that I really enjoyed studying for. So I'm very proud of it. I'm very happy to accomplish it. First of all, you sound like an extremely qualified individual. That's good for you. You like like school. You said you like sitting for exam, studying. You might be the only person I know. I'm just kidding. But can we go, can we go back? Can you tell me what year you started and how you got into medical coding and health care and just kind of how that all began? Okay, so it was back in 2005 actually and it was a very small Medicare Advantage plan and they were looking for customer service representative. It was just working from the call center. So I was taking calls from providers about enrollees, you know, benefits, coverage, denials. And that was the first time that I saw a code, like an I.C.9 code back then. So it was I.C.9 and also CT. But I didn't even know what a code was or, you know, I see nine was or anything like that. So that was like the beginning of my career. And then I just kept growing with the health plan. And since it was a Medicare Advantage plan, like two years, or I think it was three years. They created this coding unit that we were in charge of educating physicians and providers about risk adjustment and also I see the nine coding. So that's how I started here, you know, in this career, this business. Yeah. Do you enjoy your job? Like do you like the work you do? Like what do you find to be and if if yes

what do you find to be the best part and the most rewarding? I think like review charts. I don't know why. But I just like looking for opportunities within the documentation for me, that's fascinating. Like, I really, I enjoy that and I love my work. I also like to train others and also educate like doing webinars and flyers, anything, articles. So I also like that part of my career. But I think reviewing charts, I don't know why. It's just looking for opportunities like, oh, you know, clinic indicators and stuff like that. And then go back to the provider, educate the provider. That piece of the whole thing. That's what I really like. Oh, enjoy more. Yeah. I have seen that you've done a few articles for us at A.P.C. I love that you're working with providers. I know that sometimes the provider coding relationship can be complicated, but it sounds like you are facilitating like good relationships there, and I love that. And I'm so sorry, I didn't get, what are you doing currently? So you've got all these, what is your current role? I'm a senior consultant for USI, United Auditor Systems Inc., we just provide, you know, out of thing and also review, you know, charts and services to providers, so mainly to hospitals and health systems. So that's what I do. And it's basically just providing recommendations reviewing those charts that I really like to do to review and providing recommendations about clinical documentation improvement, coding, health information management. So that's what I'm doing right now. I love that. Do you, are you

are you, do you plan to stay where you are or do you have future career ambitions? I would like to go like maybe I'm also teaching but I would like to go like full-time like a full-time professor maybe five to ten years. Yeah I would like that. That's awesome. Would you do that? Do you want to stay in Florida or? Oh, I can do online or yeah, I can move or yeah, it doesn't matter. No. Where wherever the wind takes you, huh? Yes, absolutely. Okay, well, I, just so we're talking to the AAPC community, I want to talk about like taking exams. I know people get really overwhelmed with exams and it sounds like, not only are you good at it, but you like it. So, like, what do you have to say to people who are feeling that way? Like, do you have tips forinees? So my process before I sit down for ex- I always get the study guy from either APC in this case, right, that we're talking about APC. So I always get a study guy, also the practice exams, and I do that before I sit down for, I review them, you know, I prefer myself before I sit down for, to take the exam. But once you are there taking the exam, I think you need to, I think one of the, I will say like establishing like a time frame for each question. Like sometimes, you know, if a question is taking you more than one minute, you know, just skip and go move on, go to the next one. I think that's one of the best advice that I can give to, you know, my colleagues is just, you know, move on, just leave that one behind and then go back whenever you have it, you know, when you have time left. Yeah

I think that is something people face, they get kind of stressed out about and spend maybe too much time on one question and not only do theythey run out of time but it can get frustrating and then they kind of get in their head and aren't as successful with the rest of the exam but yeah if you're feeling stressed or yeah skip it skip it and come back especially those cases that sometimes you have this two pages cases you know they're too long you know it's gonna take it too much just leave that sometimes you have this two pages, cases, you know, they're too long. You know, it's going to take it too much. Just leave that one, skip that one, and then go back and review it if you have time. Otherwise, just pick out another answer if you don't have any time left. Yeah. Okay, so that's great. So you like the study guides and the practice tests. Yes. Skipping that and kind of like allotting a certain amount of time for each question. Do you have like the day of the exam? Like you eat a certain breakfast or you like do you have anything like that? Bring snacks. Any of those tips? No, I don't like to bring snacks. What I do, if this is something maybe that is wrong, I go out the day before I go out, the night before I do the exam. Like, most of the time, yeah, so most of the time those exams are Saturday, so I go out Friday and then go to the exam. Do you do it just to like feel like relaxed a little bit? Yeah, just to relax and don't do anything before that day. Yeah. You know, of course, don't drink too much. But yeah. A couple of beers

I like beers, I have a couple of beers or, and just, you know, relax and then take the exam in the next day. Yeah, it sounds like if you have studied and practiced, then maybe the night before and the day of, like, you don't just relax a little bit you have the knowledge You know relax your body Okay, and then do you like any anything else you want the a PC community to know like any other things that have helped you in your career or with exams or just anything that you want to, you're clearly an expert in what you do and if you want to share that expertise with your colleagues. I would say like for networking, something that I have helped me is just be active on the social media platforms, you know, Facebook, the groups, local chapters, try to, you know, to participate at least once, I don't know, a year or every two years. Just try to do any presentation, just serve in your local chapter. Just, you know, try to get to know more people and people getting to know you better. I think that's an advice that I have for my colleagues too. Yeah, networking is always a good idea and I love, I love our Facebook group. Everyone's pretty active on that and then local chapters, yeah, if you're getting, if you're new, or even if you're not new, like knowing the people in your area, I think can be really beneficial. Absolutely, yes. Yeah, I have been doing that since 2005 for 2007. And that's fairly working. Yes. And so, yeah, so, yeah, so my first, I started has a

I think it was president-elect back then. It wasn't vice president at the local chapter in Puerto Rico. So that was my first role within the local chapter and after that it was just everybody was you know like hey Gabriel can you present here can you present in our organization so it was like I think it's very good you know like to to participate in your local chapters and also to be very active from social media professionally, right? Yeah, cool. Okay, is there anything else you want to share with the community? No, I don't have anything else. I just, I'm here, you know, like if someone needs me, they can always reach me on social media anywhere. Yeah, I love that. What's the best way for people to reach you? Is it on like Facebook? Is it on LinkedIn? LinkedIn, I think it's a good platform for, yes, professional women working. I love that you're like willing to be a resource for other people. That's really cool. April, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me. I really appreciate it. Thank you. I hope you avoid all the alligator. I always forget. Is it alligators or crocodiles that are in Florida? Alligators. Alligators. Broccle Nino is like too big. I don't think it's the size that scares me. I think it's the teeth. It's true. It's true. You got a good point. All right. Have a good one Gabriel. Thank you. Bye-bye.

Welcome to another edition of I am AAPC. Today we have Taylor King with us and I was just speaking with Taylor before we started recording and saying to her that I've seen you Taylor all over the APC and digital world, just sharing your enthusiasm for your career path in the business of health care. Why don't you tell a little bit about, tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey in the business of health care. Yeah, sure. So my name is Taylor King. I live in Upper Sandusky, Ohio. It's a very small town. I have three children. And my story of how I got into health care is a little bit interesting. So I actually had my first child right out of high school. So I got pregnant in high school. I had him right after I graduated. But I knew I was still going to go to college, so I did that. I did about three and a half years of my bachelor's degree in marketing, and then I decided that that wasn't going to be for me. I just, I grew to not like it. So I stopped doing that. And for a few years after that I did, you know, waitress, I worked in a factory, I worked at a gym, you know, just odd jobs to make ends meet. And then I met my current boyfriend and he really pushed me to go back to school

so I did that and I didn't know what I wanted to go back to school for. So I talked to his mom and his sister and they both work and coding and billing. And so they kind of told me a little bit about it. And what really attracted me to that realm of HIM was working remotely because I did have kids at this point I was pregnant with my second child when I went to college for my RHIT. So I just did it. I said great you know my mom was a nurse so I knew a little bit about health care and I thought I'll just go ahead and try it. And so I did that and did the schooling and I got certified with my CPC while I was in school for the RHIT and then obviously when I graduated got the RHITs. So the rest is history. Well I'm curious because I would imagine most people to marketing thinking or having a creative side. You might have thought, hey, I can explore that, but medical coding and revenue cycle is very analytical. Yeah. So how would you describe your personality? Do you have a balance of both? I do. I think that what really benefits me in the coding and auditing side is I overthink everything. So I'm just very detailed in all of my work and I like to dig deep into what I'm doing and figure out, you know, is this the best way to do it or is there a better solution? You know, just anything like that. And then, yeah, I am very creative and I'm not necessarily graphically creative with design and whatnot, but you know, obviously I love to network like you said

you've seen me kind of all over lately. I love talking to people. It's not an uncomfortable situation for me at all. So I just really enjoy putting myself out there and putting myself in positions that I'm not used to being in and just growing from that. And yeah, so that's what I, that's how I feel like I kind of tie in well with HIM. Awesome, awesome. And tell me your initial dots when your boyfriend's family, they're acting as a mentors to you and helping you guide down this, help guiding you down this path. What were your initial thoughts when they were describing what this world is like? Yeah, so his mom, she actually works in billing and she does workers comp and when she tries to explain that to me I'm just like, okay that sounds crazy. You know, this was before I went to school, and I kind of felt a little intimidated at first, just based on what they were saying with their experiences. It just sounded very, a little bit overly detailed for, maybe what I would have wanted to do for a career. But once I started going to school, I realized that you can specialize in different things. And you know, you don't have to do everything or you can, you know, go down to the micro section of H. I am, wherever it may be. So that kind of eased my mind a little bit, just understanding that I didn't need to do everything, you know, because in the beginning

that's that's the sense that I was getting from them. There are many different paths you can go down and you didn't know that at first and now you see this. And now here you are a mom with a few kids, and how has this career, this journey helped you provide for your family? Has it been what you thought it'd be? Yeah, it's been more than I ever thought it would be. Actually, started with a local health system, and so that it was nice to work locally in the beginning. Nice to take my children to providers that I was working with, you know, intimately. So I knew them on a personal level. I knew, you know, I had meetings with them, things like that. But it's, the remote work has been great and that was the most important thing to me in the beginning. But it really has been financially well for me because the area that I live in is not, we don't have a plethora of jobs open. It's, you know, if you picture a really rural farm town in Ohio, that's what it is. So, you know, it's, there isn't a lot of opportunity where I live unless you drive to the city to work on site, or if you, you know, are working in a factory or just a local, a local shop or something of that nature. So for me, that's been exciting because I, coming from where I am from, you either move to another state and make something of yourself or you stay there and you don't and I say don't you know not that you can't but you know it can be difficult and so for that reason you know questioning myself in the beginning as a young mom wondering if I'll ever you know get up out of that reason

you know, questioning myself in the beginning as a young mom wondering if I'll ever, you know, get up out of that leap of, you know, like paycheck to paycheck. Am I ever going to have more than this? You know, I'm definitely there and that's exciting. And I think that no matter where you are in the industry, if you are willing to put yourself in a position to work hard enough to get there, you can. Now, here's the big question, Taylor, that many people watching will want to know is that first job. And to lead into that, did you have, you had your certification through AHIMA, the RHAT. Did you have that prior to your CPC? No, I got my CPC first. So I was in school, so I did the two-year associates program with my local community college. And while I was in school, I apologize with a library and there's, you're all right. So while I was in school, I apologize with a library and there's all right. So while I was in school for the RHIT, I sat for the CPC exam. So I didn't, I don't want to say I didn't necessarily study for the CPC because I obviously did, but I feel that my coursework overall for my degree kind of just shaped well into the CPC exam. I did do practice exams, but yeah, it, I did the CPC first and I thought, okay, I'm going to do that first and then hopefully I can get a job while I'm in school. And that's exactly what I did. So at the end of my first year of college, I got a position with the local health system as a medical records analyst. At that point, I had, you know, I knew all about ROI and things of that nature

but I didn't know what I was doing. So that role, that role isn't necessarily coding. It puts you in, not at all. Okay, they say it puts you near it. Right. Right. Right. Okay. Yeah. So, so I started as a medical records analyst, not coding at all, doing more administrative things and, you know, scanning papers, things of that nature. And then from there, we actually had a coder position open up at that same health system, and they knew that I was certified and that I was about to graduate with my RHIT, so they asked me if I would like to interview. And I said, yeah, of course, you know, why wouldn't I? So I interviewed, and they were amazing. I was actually about to go on maternity leave at the time, and they said, you know, you can just start whenever you get back. So that's that was my first coding job. Yeah. That's awesome. How long were you in that position for? I was with that. I finished that position and it was about six or seven months I'd say before I moved to contract coding. Okay. And what would you say to someone watching you struggling to get that first position? What would you tell them? Definitely have a great resume. I think that a lot of it has to do with your interview skills and how confident you are in the way that you speak about yourself, or I like to call it selling yourself, but not in a negative way. You don't oversell yourself, but understand where your strengths and your weaknesses are and make sure that you can use your words to properly convey that to the person that is interviewing you

whether it be the manager or HR, you know, just making sure that they understand how serious you are about the position, how passionate you are about your career, things like that, that will really put you over the top and show them that you're not just there for a job, you know, you're there for a career. Did you rehearse? Did I rehearse? Uh-huh. Like, of course, it wasn't, yeah, well Like for interviews, for job interviews, did you have exam questions and you, or interview questions and went through on practice? I didn't. I never did that. I will be honest. I feel like I'm really, talking just comes easy for me. I will say I usually before my interviews I will kind of think to myself, you know, these are typical interview questions, you know, what are some of your strengths and weaknesses, what the situation you've been put in or you might have had to, you know, address a hard situation, things of that nature, but so I'll kind of go through those in my head and come up with something that's more tailored to the company or the position. But overall I feel that when I'm just talking about why I want to work there, why I want the position, why I feel confident in doing so, I think that that's that's usually enough. Okay, all right. And so if you're watching and you may not feel as confident as Taylor does with with expressing yourself, it may not hurt to write down those things that you would say and review them. Yeah, I do recommend that. And some of the people who are newly certified who reach out to me on LinkedIn

I've helped them go over their resumes. I've guided them in directions of companies that typically hire entry-level coders, how to, I guess, navigate where they want to go in their career, focus on that first, and then focus on, like you said, making a list of your strengths and weaknesses. Maybe rehearsing is good for you, you know, maybe that will help you, maybe making note cards or things of like, sniffing, you know, things like that. But also reaching out to people. And I know not everybody likes to do that. Not everybody likes to network or do, you know, the cold calls or the cold messaging, but I really feel that it's beneficial because I have not met a single person in the industry yet who's unwilling to help somebody, especially with AAPC. I've met so many people just becoming an officer. And I've reached out to people, actually just recently I had an issue and I've reached out on LinkedIn and a couple of the board of directors messaged me with some advice and it was helpful. So connecting with people in the industry is also great and getting your name out there and you know putting your best foot forward. All right awesome I love it. Now we're going to jump around bit, Taylor, but I want to piece together this timeline. So you receive your CPC. I get the CPCA because you're an apprentice at that time. Right after that, you get this position as a medical records clerk. And how long after being certified did you receive that? Pretty quick. I was certified, I think it was a September maybe

and I got the job late November. It was right before December started. So about a month later. And how long from, how long were you in that medical records position until you worked as a coder? Seven months. Okay, wow, it's pretty quick. Yeah, yeah, I was there from pretty much December to June of the next year and then that's when they interviewed me for the coding position. And then once I came back from maternity leave, I transition to the coding position from there. Okay. Wow, all right. So it's awesome. It can be done. And I always say, Taylor, that everybody's journey is different. Yours certainly is, although I believe, Ray, do you know Ray Marie Jimenez, APC's VP of product? Yes, yes. I, if I recall, right, she also started in medical records. And now she's, yeah, now she's an executive for APC. So you never know what's in your future, right? Yeah, yeah, it can be a surprise. Yes. All right, so I want to dig into your exam experience because we see, we know how difficult the CPC exam can be. To start, what information did you wish you knew before taking the exam that you would like to share with someone else? Yeah, so I definitely think that utilizing the resources that you get with AAPC is a huge ordeal. I had two practice exams and I only took one of them and I wish I would have taken both of them. Maybe it would have bought my percentage up a little bit higher in my final score. You know, nonetheless I passed, but maybe it could have been better. So utilizing that, making sure that you are reaching out for help if you need it

reaching out, I believe AAPC has the program where you can reach out to an expert with questions. Yes. If you do have a question, an exam question, things like that, if you have an instructor, if you're going through an actual school, reaching out to them for help or maybe additional study information would be great also, most of my material was not actually through AAPC. I didn't go through the coursework. Through AAPC, I went through the community college, but it really, I really feel like it set me up perfectly for the exam. Focusing on updates is important and make sure you have the correct books. Okay, that question comes up a lot, right? We see people, especially now, there are students who are looking for to, right now it's October of 2023, students are looking for to potentially taking exams in 2024 asking can I use my 2023 code books in all my 2024 exam and you say you should not. Right. Okay. Yes. And additionally are they going, you know, maybe this is off topic a little bit, but it might be beneficial too to let people know who are listening if the ebook will be part of the electronic exams next year. I know that that was, there was talk about that. Yeah, I don't think that will be, not at least right out of the gate. I know that is something we're working on, but because, I mean, really, the field is becoming more digitized. And I'm sure, I don't know, do you use your books much, Taylor, or are you in an encoder tool? Very rarely. I use my computer. I do use the book when I'm trying to create a presentation or things like that

you know, if it's something that I'm going to be speaking on, I like to kind of get down to the nitty gritty and use the book again. But when I'm working every day, yeah, I just, I use an encoder. All right, all right, I love it. Okay, now let's talk about where you're at now. So you were in that first coding position for about six, seven months. And then you jumped quick, which is, I mean, that's what I love is there, we talktalked about this, there's so many different avenues you could take. Tell us about that next step. Yeah, so, so I, ironically enough, so I worked, I transition and I worked for Omega Health Care, which is formally Imagine. And when I was working out the local health system that I was at, we actually used imagine for our monthly CEUs. So that's how I found out about the company. And I saw that they were hiring coders and I thought, you know, I'll try it. Why not? So I interviewed and I'll be 100% transparent. The sole reason that I even applied for the job was because I knew that it would be a good financial move for me. And I was very transparent with my previous job about that. I actually loved that job. I cried when I left. And I'm still very close with them. But yeah, it was purely financial reasons and so I interviewed and I got it. I interviewed they got the job the next day and I thought, okay, well, something must have went right. So I started working for Omega and I absolutely loved working for Omega. They were a great company to work for. That was a work from home? Yes

it was 100% work from home. So it was for all remote, you know, and when you get hired, everybody gets put on a different client depending on what you're doing, you know, things like that. So it's contract coding. So I did that until February or March of this year, I think it was. And then I moved into a different position because we were starting to offshore some of the locations. So I figured, you know, I'll just get out now. Yeah. Yeah. And which, you know, it's a safe place. It's a safe thing to do if you are feeling unsure, which is fine. So now I work for yes, H. I am consulting and they're based out of Florida. And I am a profi edits and denial specialist. And I have been there since February or March. I can't remember exactly which month it was, but yeah. How long were you with Omega for? So I was at the Mega for a little over a year. I started there in January of 2022. And then, yeah, so about a year and two or three months. Okay. And do you hold any credentials other than the CPC and RHIT? No. Okay. Let's talk about your future, Taylor, because we've talked several times about the different paths you can take. What is resonating with you? What do you want to explore? Yeah, so I am very, very interested in auditing and compliance. I feel my mind going more in that direction than staying where I'm at. And I know that some people have their own opinion on this, but working in denials, some people say it's not coding, some people say it's not auditing, I say it's a little bit of both. So, yeah

yeah, so working in denials has become a really big passion of mine, and it goes back to that I like to find the details and figure out what's wrong and solve the problem. So I would really like to see myself go into auditing and compliance. Eventually I would like to get my RHIA and go into management. I am interested in my CPCO. I'm also interested in the CPMA, so you know there's a lot of things that I want to do. Right now I'm okay, but I don't I don't ever feel like you can move up too quickly if you feel you're ready. So don't don't I don't want people to stop themselves from taking that next step just because they feel like you know like I've done I've been in a position for six months and then another six months and then a year and, you know, some people think maybe that's not good to job hop, but in my opinion, I'm promoting myself every time that I do that. So I personally don't feel uncomfortable with doing that. And I'm okay with explaining my reasons as to why I keep, you know, switching. So everybody's different, but yeah, I love auditing and compliance. And there is no right or wrong. If it's working for you, then that's the best thing, right? Yeah. Okay. All right. So you had always wanted to work from home. You finally had gotten that position. What do you love about that? Was it what you thought it would be? And what are some of the challenges of working from home? Give us, give us our viewers a taste of both. Sure. So I will start with the good. For me as a mother of three, working from home is amazing. My kids are all

my oldest is in school and my younger two kids go to daycare. So they're not home with me and a lot of employers won't allow you to have children at home with you while you work. So keep out of mind if you are interested in remote work. But for me, it's the flexibility. I have one son with some medical conditions that require us to go to a hospital that's over an hour away multiple times a year. So it's nice to just know that I can flex my time if needed. So that's great. I love that I can, you know, make an appointment in the middle of my day, take a long break or a long lunch for that. And just like I'm doing right now, I'm taking a long lunch today. And then I just go back home and finish my work day. And if for some reason I can't finish my eight hours that day, then I'll make it up the next day or sometime that week. I've never had an issue with an employer allowing that. So that's the biggest thing for me because you're not having to utilize all of your PTO and worry about whether or not you're going to have the time off. And when you don't have help, or maybe you don't have kids, maybe you have things going on yourself and you have a lot of appointments or you know, something's going on and you have to take off work. If you run out of PTO, what do you do? You know, so if you're working on site, most places won't allow you to flex your time. So that is the biggest thing for me that I absolutely love. Obviously, there's no expense to commuting, so I'm saving money on gas. That's nice. The bad. It depends on the person. I, if you can't tell

have a little bit of a crazy mind, so I'm all over the place. And sometimes for me to do one thing for a long period of time is a little bit exhausting so I have to you know maybe I go take a break and throw a little laundry in or something like that but it's not for everybody typically working from home if you're a coder from my my experience anyway, I don't have experience with building, but as a coder if you're just working on productivity, it can kind of be, in my opinion, a little bit boring sometimes and hard to stay engaged if you are kind of losing yourself in the work a little bit. So it's important to take breaks and it's important to, you know, reach out to your manager if you are getting bored. Maybe they can cross-train you on something or, you know, move you to a different provider or location or something like that. So, you know, definitely have communication with your management if that's a position that you're in. But that is the biggest thing for me. I just find it a little hard sometimes to stay focused on the one thing that I need to do because my mind has 10 things going on all the time. So that's the hardest thing for me. Yeah. Okay. All right. And well, I think your employer would not be so flexible if you were not a hardworking, good employee, right? Yeah. So, I mean, that says a lot about you and your work ethic, but if you're watching, if you're watching and you think that it's just a gimmy, right, you have to prove yourself and show that you're committed to the organization. Yes, yes, you can't

you can't, and I do talk about that often with people who are newly certified and I think I can't find a coding job or I can't find a coding job that's remote and it's $30 an hour and I'm like, you're not going to find that as a brand new coder with zero experience. And I shouldn't say you're not, but that would be rare. So, you know, keep your mind open to other positions in health care. Get your foot in the door somewhere, you know, even if it is in medical records, if it's in registration, or maybe you start out part-time coding for a contract. And I think that there's a bad stigma put on contracts also. I have loved contract coding. I have never had an issue with it. And even when my contract did end, and they were starting to offshore, there are other clients that most companies can move you to if you're doing a good job. They can switch you to a different client. I just chose to not do that. So, you know, that's an option also. If the client were pulled out or ends, there are other clients available with your company most likely. So just communicate that with your management. If that's something you're worried about. That's great advice. Now we've talked for 20 minutes about work. After, like, I know you're busy with a young family, about what we always ask us, what does Taylor like to do outside of work and when you get that minute of a minute of a loan time, what do you head for? Yeah, so I love to go to the gym. I do heavy weight lifting, so I

so I, it kind of just clears my mind and it's a place that I could just put my headphones on and listen to music and you know, I just let go of work, I let go of life. It's just my one thing that I do for myself. But I also love to play soccer with my kids out in the yard. We've got probably, we have like 17 acres, but like five of it is grass. So we have a lot of area to do things. We, you know, so I play outside with my kids. And I love, and you know, this is not to be cliche at all, but I love to help my AAPC members and volunteer. I just started writing some articles and some blogs, so I've been doing that, and just kind of always trying to figure out how I can be better. That's really important to me and always moving forward and always being better than I was the day before. So I do a lot of self-education and self-work, whether it be in life or in my career. Yeah, so I'm not super interesting, but... Well, it sounds fun. It's hard to find that time when you have a young family, right? Yeah, it is. It's very hard, but you have to make the time. You have to. Yes, awesome. Well, Taylor, thank you so much for sharing your story. Absolutely. And we're excited to see where your career heads in the future. Thank you. Thanks for having me. You're welcome. Now for those watching know that you can also listen to Taylor share her her story on the AAPC podcast. You can find that at the AAPC podcast on your favorite podcast app and we will also put this on YouTube in Taylor. Thanks so much for your time. Thank you so much. Have a great day.