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Stanford NLP 82

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6tmor

ik6guxa

Construction economics don't favor the designers is a big part of it. Architects are also non union so they can't establish wage ranges that their clients have to adhere to. Contractors are generally unionized and contractors fees are often much higher. Often 20 percent of the overall construction costs. So on a 10 million dollar building that's 2 million. No architecture firm can bill 2 million against a 10 million construction budget. They'd never get hired. In fact the entirety of the design trade fees (structure, landscape, lighting, MEP, interiors, life safety, etc) likely wouldn't even add up to 2 million. Now it's not that every GC is living in Bel Air because the economic risk for construction is much higher. But when times are good GCs really benefit because they also can respond to demand and increase their fees accordingly. Also contractors have a second revenue stream where they buy materials at a lesser cost but charge the client full cost and pocket the difference. Architects generally aren't allowed to do stuff like that. The top architecture firm in the world is Gensler who billed $565 million for 2021. Gensler has 50 offices worldwide. In contrast the largest general contractor Turner billed $14 billion and there were fifty-six contractors whose revenue exceeded one billion dollars last year. It's a huge difference (there's a lot of complex reasons for this, but in terms of construction economics developers and contractors are the winners). Architects have historically been terrible advocates with poor business skills. The AIA in particular is a pretty weak lobby. Some other trades try here and there to charge more. Interior Design and MEP for example but often they can't cost more than the architect on a job in many clients eyes. And many many developers and clients view projects through the lens of construction and only see the design team as a commoditized means to an end. So there's a perception problem too. On top of that many heads of facilities, or heads of development for large companies come out of construction, this is especially true for government (universities, schools, etc). So the construction point of view tends to drive decisions, design is often a distant worry behind budget and schedule and logistics. You see this clearly with RFPs which often don't really care about your portfolio they just want to know if you've done a project like this before. So, for instance, if you want to do an elementary school the forces hiring the architect are mostly interested in if they've done similar projects, not necessarily whether they've done those projects well or advanced design or any of the stuff architects care about. So there's a disconnect in terms of what architects want their clients to value versus what client's actually value. There is a huge gulf of value proposition in construction economics. Architects and designers literally create the products that make their clients money but there is no return on value. A hotel might make hundreds of millions of dollars of value for a developer, but the architect or design team might be only making a few hundred thousand in fees. There's an extreme difference between value generated and value compensated for. Design trades might actually be among the worst businesses to be in because many firms are operating at slim, to no margins and often basically working for free if projects stretch on or the client isn't good about paying on time. Celebrity architecture firms often charge more because of demand. But those businesses are often large. Several hundred employees with a lot of overhead. SOM can charge 5 million but they're doing Burj Khalifa. Lastly architecture being a service business typically struggles in the accounts receivable department. The field is plagued by clients who don't want to pay or don't pay on time (often due to the fact when a developer has capital available is out of step with the payment schedule). And these projects have long gestation times typically two years or more. And the fees and budgets are set at the outset of a project when you know the least about what you're doing. And before a GC is brought on board so you have no idea what the construction costs will come back as and whether or not there will be a VE exercise which can account for many billable hours (often a redesign) that has to be accounted for before you even know what you're doing with the project. So then design firms get into the hell of additional services which owners don't want to pay because they didn't budget for it. It's a huge mess. A guild or trade union would start to solve a lot of this. Similar to how Hollywood works. If you are an actor or director worth your salt you have to be in a guild in order to be hired. And companies have to be signatories of that guild. So for example to work on an ABC network show you have to be in the directors guild because ABC is a DGA signatory. This establishes a baseline of quality and understood expectations for costs. The guild also offers a layer of protection to directors. Only no budget indie films would hire a non SAG actor because no actors get taken seriously unless they're in SAG. It adds a layer of credentials that you're someone trustworthy and the guilds tend to be invite only. So that protects clients because level of talent or expertise is pre filtered and there are legals in place for when agreements fall apart. I don't think architects need the equivalent of IBEW and obviously it gets tricky internationally, but some collective bargaining apparatus and universalizing of basic fee and pay conditions at least in RIBA and AIA countries would go a long way especially with the field moving quickly toward hybridizing with the tech industry as web 3.0 and technologies like metaverse, etc. begin to emerge.

I’m three years into my career. Once I finish my exams, I’ll be licensed. I can barely afford rent in my studio apartment, and I’m just two paychecks away from being homeless. Edit: Should also mention that every few months, we get updates on how the business is doing financially…profits are going up every year. I won’t go into the details on the numbers. But it’s more than enough to double every single employee’s wage, and have some left over.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6ssfs

ik6tmor

Not right now. Not in Canada at least. The market is so tight and every major player is fighting for “talent”. And by “talent” I mean anyone who can open revit. Wages are skyrocketing with people jumping firms for 25% pay increases. It’s not at all sustainable but nice to see people finally getting paid appropriately. If you didn’t get a decent raise this year, I suggest you open LinkedIn and see what else is out there.

Construction economics don't favor the designers is a big part of it. Architects are also non union so they can't establish wage ranges that their clients have to adhere to. Contractors are generally unionized and contractors fees are often much higher. Often 20 percent of the overall construction costs. So on a 10 million dollar building that's 2 million. No architecture firm can bill 2 million against a 10 million construction budget. They'd never get hired. In fact the entirety of the design trade fees (structure, landscape, lighting, MEP, interiors, life safety, etc) likely wouldn't even add up to 2 million. Now it's not that every GC is living in Bel Air because the economic risk for construction is much higher. But when times are good GCs really benefit because they also can respond to demand and increase their fees accordingly. Also contractors have a second revenue stream where they buy materials at a lesser cost but charge the client full cost and pocket the difference. Architects generally aren't allowed to do stuff like that. The top architecture firm in the world is Gensler who billed $565 million for 2021. Gensler has 50 offices worldwide. In contrast the largest general contractor Turner billed $14 billion and there were fifty-six contractors whose revenue exceeded one billion dollars last year. It's a huge difference (there's a lot of complex reasons for this, but in terms of construction economics developers and contractors are the winners). Architects have historically been terrible advocates with poor business skills. The AIA in particular is a pretty weak lobby. Some other trades try here and there to charge more. Interior Design and MEP for example but often they can't cost more than the architect on a job in many clients eyes. And many many developers and clients view projects through the lens of construction and only see the design team as a commoditized means to an end. So there's a perception problem too. On top of that many heads of facilities, or heads of development for large companies come out of construction, this is especially true for government (universities, schools, etc). So the construction point of view tends to drive decisions, design is often a distant worry behind budget and schedule and logistics. You see this clearly with RFPs which often don't really care about your portfolio they just want to know if you've done a project like this before. So, for instance, if you want to do an elementary school the forces hiring the architect are mostly interested in if they've done similar projects, not necessarily whether they've done those projects well or advanced design or any of the stuff architects care about. So there's a disconnect in terms of what architects want their clients to value versus what client's actually value. There is a huge gulf of value proposition in construction economics. Architects and designers literally create the products that make their clients money but there is no return on value. A hotel might make hundreds of millions of dollars of value for a developer, but the architect or design team might be only making a few hundred thousand in fees. There's an extreme difference between value generated and value compensated for. Design trades might actually be among the worst businesses to be in because many firms are operating at slim, to no margins and often basically working for free if projects stretch on or the client isn't good about paying on time. Celebrity architecture firms often charge more because of demand. But those businesses are often large. Several hundred employees with a lot of overhead. SOM can charge 5 million but they're doing Burj Khalifa. Lastly architecture being a service business typically struggles in the accounts receivable department. The field is plagued by clients who don't want to pay or don't pay on time (often due to the fact when a developer has capital available is out of step with the payment schedule). And these projects have long gestation times typically two years or more. And the fees and budgets are set at the outset of a project when you know the least about what you're doing. And before a GC is brought on board so you have no idea what the construction costs will come back as and whether or not there will be a VE exercise which can account for many billable hours (often a redesign) that has to be accounted for before you even know what you're doing with the project. So then design firms get into the hell of additional services which owners don't want to pay because they didn't budget for it. It's a huge mess. A guild or trade union would start to solve a lot of this. Similar to how Hollywood works. If you are an actor or director worth your salt you have to be in a guild in order to be hired. And companies have to be signatories of that guild. So for example to work on an ABC network show you have to be in the directors guild because ABC is a DGA signatory. This establishes a baseline of quality and understood expectations for costs. The guild also offers a layer of protection to directors. Only no budget indie films would hire a non SAG actor because no actors get taken seriously unless they're in SAG. It adds a layer of credentials that you're someone trustworthy and the guilds tend to be invite only. So that protects clients because level of talent or expertise is pre filtered and there are legals in place for when agreements fall apart. I don't think architects need the equivalent of IBEW and obviously it gets tricky internationally, but some collective bargaining apparatus and universalizing of basic fee and pay conditions at least in RIBA and AIA countries would go a long way especially with the field moving quickly toward hybridizing with the tech industry as web 3.0 and technologies like metaverse, etc. begin to emerge.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6tmor

ik6m6ds

Construction economics don't favor the designers is a big part of it. Architects are also non union so they can't establish wage ranges that their clients have to adhere to. Contractors are generally unionized and contractors fees are often much higher. Often 20 percent of the overall construction costs. So on a 10 million dollar building that's 2 million. No architecture firm can bill 2 million against a 10 million construction budget. They'd never get hired. In fact the entirety of the design trade fees (structure, landscape, lighting, MEP, interiors, life safety, etc) likely wouldn't even add up to 2 million. Now it's not that every GC is living in Bel Air because the economic risk for construction is much higher. But when times are good GCs really benefit because they also can respond to demand and increase their fees accordingly. Also contractors have a second revenue stream where they buy materials at a lesser cost but charge the client full cost and pocket the difference. Architects generally aren't allowed to do stuff like that. The top architecture firm in the world is Gensler who billed $565 million for 2021. Gensler has 50 offices worldwide. In contrast the largest general contractor Turner billed $14 billion and there were fifty-six contractors whose revenue exceeded one billion dollars last year. It's a huge difference (there's a lot of complex reasons for this, but in terms of construction economics developers and contractors are the winners). Architects have historically been terrible advocates with poor business skills. The AIA in particular is a pretty weak lobby. Some other trades try here and there to charge more. Interior Design and MEP for example but often they can't cost more than the architect on a job in many clients eyes. And many many developers and clients view projects through the lens of construction and only see the design team as a commoditized means to an end. So there's a perception problem too. On top of that many heads of facilities, or heads of development for large companies come out of construction, this is especially true for government (universities, schools, etc). So the construction point of view tends to drive decisions, design is often a distant worry behind budget and schedule and logistics. You see this clearly with RFPs which often don't really care about your portfolio they just want to know if you've done a project like this before. So, for instance, if you want to do an elementary school the forces hiring the architect are mostly interested in if they've done similar projects, not necessarily whether they've done those projects well or advanced design or any of the stuff architects care about. So there's a disconnect in terms of what architects want their clients to value versus what client's actually value. There is a huge gulf of value proposition in construction economics. Architects and designers literally create the products that make their clients money but there is no return on value. A hotel might make hundreds of millions of dollars of value for a developer, but the architect or design team might be only making a few hundred thousand in fees. There's an extreme difference between value generated and value compensated for. Design trades might actually be among the worst businesses to be in because many firms are operating at slim, to no margins and often basically working for free if projects stretch on or the client isn't good about paying on time. Celebrity architecture firms often charge more because of demand. But those businesses are often large. Several hundred employees with a lot of overhead. SOM can charge 5 million but they're doing Burj Khalifa. Lastly architecture being a service business typically struggles in the accounts receivable department. The field is plagued by clients who don't want to pay or don't pay on time (often due to the fact when a developer has capital available is out of step with the payment schedule). And these projects have long gestation times typically two years or more. And the fees and budgets are set at the outset of a project when you know the least about what you're doing. And before a GC is brought on board so you have no idea what the construction costs will come back as and whether or not there will be a VE exercise which can account for many billable hours (often a redesign) that has to be accounted for before you even know what you're doing with the project. So then design firms get into the hell of additional services which owners don't want to pay because they didn't budget for it. It's a huge mess. A guild or trade union would start to solve a lot of this. Similar to how Hollywood works. If you are an actor or director worth your salt you have to be in a guild in order to be hired. And companies have to be signatories of that guild. So for example to work on an ABC network show you have to be in the directors guild because ABC is a DGA signatory. This establishes a baseline of quality and understood expectations for costs. The guild also offers a layer of protection to directors. Only no budget indie films would hire a non SAG actor because no actors get taken seriously unless they're in SAG. It adds a layer of credentials that you're someone trustworthy and the guilds tend to be invite only. So that protects clients because level of talent or expertise is pre filtered and there are legals in place for when agreements fall apart. I don't think architects need the equivalent of IBEW and obviously it gets tricky internationally, but some collective bargaining apparatus and universalizing of basic fee and pay conditions at least in RIBA and AIA countries would go a long way especially with the field moving quickly toward hybridizing with the tech industry as web 3.0 and technologies like metaverse, etc. begin to emerge.

Antitrust lawsuit against the AIA prevents them from setting fee tables as they used to (unlike other professions like law or medicine with their respective organizational bodies). There was also the race to the bottom due to the '08 financial crisis with firms undercutting each other. And on top of things, there's just poor business sense amongst us and a highly academic mentality amongst industry leaders. At the end of the day, there are macroeconomic problems in the general economy- people in medicine and finance are grossly overpaid. On the flipside, as a profession architects are uniquely bad at lobbying, organizing, and business strategy. Things are slowly changing though, given the labor shortage and structural problems between the missing generation of mid-level people post '08 and now senior staff retiring. And I always say this when it comes to pay- we're paid low to *specific other professions requiring advanced degrees*\- in the scheme of the general economy, we're pretty well off. Like I can't deny I'm pretty comfortable- 3 years out of grad school and licensed, honestly I'm making a nice income that affords me a comfortable lifestyle. And at that, it's a mixed bag- I make more than my friends in law, comparable to friends in engineering, know people in tech and finance who are making modestly more than me (few thousand to maybe 15k more), and then a handful of them who are just grossly overpaid relative to the education they needed, the social value of what they do, and the complexity of it. But note here I'm comparing for the most part to highly credentialed people, all of whom went to name brand schools. Architects tend to hang out amongst people with similar levels of education, so when you're constantly surrounded by people making 150k+ a year, yeah we feel poor and undervalued. But then you have to figure upper double digits to low six figures (note, post-license here) is really nothing to scoff at. So, TLDR- there are aspects of the economy (at least in the US) that desperately need to change. There are problems within the field that also need to change. The two of these alter our pay in varying measures, but it's not an either/or scenario for improving the industry. Also, have some gratitude because the reality is we make a decent living and there are a ton of people far worse off than we are.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6tmor

ik6nl8s

Construction economics don't favor the designers is a big part of it. Architects are also non union so they can't establish wage ranges that their clients have to adhere to. Contractors are generally unionized and contractors fees are often much higher. Often 20 percent of the overall construction costs. So on a 10 million dollar building that's 2 million. No architecture firm can bill 2 million against a 10 million construction budget. They'd never get hired. In fact the entirety of the design trade fees (structure, landscape, lighting, MEP, interiors, life safety, etc) likely wouldn't even add up to 2 million. Now it's not that every GC is living in Bel Air because the economic risk for construction is much higher. But when times are good GCs really benefit because they also can respond to demand and increase their fees accordingly. Also contractors have a second revenue stream where they buy materials at a lesser cost but charge the client full cost and pocket the difference. Architects generally aren't allowed to do stuff like that. The top architecture firm in the world is Gensler who billed $565 million for 2021. Gensler has 50 offices worldwide. In contrast the largest general contractor Turner billed $14 billion and there were fifty-six contractors whose revenue exceeded one billion dollars last year. It's a huge difference (there's a lot of complex reasons for this, but in terms of construction economics developers and contractors are the winners). Architects have historically been terrible advocates with poor business skills. The AIA in particular is a pretty weak lobby. Some other trades try here and there to charge more. Interior Design and MEP for example but often they can't cost more than the architect on a job in many clients eyes. And many many developers and clients view projects through the lens of construction and only see the design team as a commoditized means to an end. So there's a perception problem too. On top of that many heads of facilities, or heads of development for large companies come out of construction, this is especially true for government (universities, schools, etc). So the construction point of view tends to drive decisions, design is often a distant worry behind budget and schedule and logistics. You see this clearly with RFPs which often don't really care about your portfolio they just want to know if you've done a project like this before. So, for instance, if you want to do an elementary school the forces hiring the architect are mostly interested in if they've done similar projects, not necessarily whether they've done those projects well or advanced design or any of the stuff architects care about. So there's a disconnect in terms of what architects want their clients to value versus what client's actually value. There is a huge gulf of value proposition in construction economics. Architects and designers literally create the products that make their clients money but there is no return on value. A hotel might make hundreds of millions of dollars of value for a developer, but the architect or design team might be only making a few hundred thousand in fees. There's an extreme difference between value generated and value compensated for. Design trades might actually be among the worst businesses to be in because many firms are operating at slim, to no margins and often basically working for free if projects stretch on or the client isn't good about paying on time. Celebrity architecture firms often charge more because of demand. But those businesses are often large. Several hundred employees with a lot of overhead. SOM can charge 5 million but they're doing Burj Khalifa. Lastly architecture being a service business typically struggles in the accounts receivable department. The field is plagued by clients who don't want to pay or don't pay on time (often due to the fact when a developer has capital available is out of step with the payment schedule). And these projects have long gestation times typically two years or more. And the fees and budgets are set at the outset of a project when you know the least about what you're doing. And before a GC is brought on board so you have no idea what the construction costs will come back as and whether or not there will be a VE exercise which can account for many billable hours (often a redesign) that has to be accounted for before you even know what you're doing with the project. So then design firms get into the hell of additional services which owners don't want to pay because they didn't budget for it. It's a huge mess. A guild or trade union would start to solve a lot of this. Similar to how Hollywood works. If you are an actor or director worth your salt you have to be in a guild in order to be hired. And companies have to be signatories of that guild. So for example to work on an ABC network show you have to be in the directors guild because ABC is a DGA signatory. This establishes a baseline of quality and understood expectations for costs. The guild also offers a layer of protection to directors. Only no budget indie films would hire a non SAG actor because no actors get taken seriously unless they're in SAG. It adds a layer of credentials that you're someone trustworthy and the guilds tend to be invite only. So that protects clients because level of talent or expertise is pre filtered and there are legals in place for when agreements fall apart. I don't think architects need the equivalent of IBEW and obviously it gets tricky internationally, but some collective bargaining apparatus and universalizing of basic fee and pay conditions at least in RIBA and AIA countries would go a long way especially with the field moving quickly toward hybridizing with the tech industry as web 3.0 and technologies like metaverse, etc. begin to emerge.

Is this a US thing? Where I live an architect has a good salary (not top top, but you are doing well). A quick look showes it's about 28% above average, and 42% above median. Addition: Maybe the requirements for getting to call yourself an architect are different other places. Here you have to pass a rather intense 5 years (Masters).

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6tmor

ik6rfnu

Construction economics don't favor the designers is a big part of it. Architects are also non union so they can't establish wage ranges that their clients have to adhere to. Contractors are generally unionized and contractors fees are often much higher. Often 20 percent of the overall construction costs. So on a 10 million dollar building that's 2 million. No architecture firm can bill 2 million against a 10 million construction budget. They'd never get hired. In fact the entirety of the design trade fees (structure, landscape, lighting, MEP, interiors, life safety, etc) likely wouldn't even add up to 2 million. Now it's not that every GC is living in Bel Air because the economic risk for construction is much higher. But when times are good GCs really benefit because they also can respond to demand and increase their fees accordingly. Also contractors have a second revenue stream where they buy materials at a lesser cost but charge the client full cost and pocket the difference. Architects generally aren't allowed to do stuff like that. The top architecture firm in the world is Gensler who billed $565 million for 2021. Gensler has 50 offices worldwide. In contrast the largest general contractor Turner billed $14 billion and there were fifty-six contractors whose revenue exceeded one billion dollars last year. It's a huge difference (there's a lot of complex reasons for this, but in terms of construction economics developers and contractors are the winners). Architects have historically been terrible advocates with poor business skills. The AIA in particular is a pretty weak lobby. Some other trades try here and there to charge more. Interior Design and MEP for example but often they can't cost more than the architect on a job in many clients eyes. And many many developers and clients view projects through the lens of construction and only see the design team as a commoditized means to an end. So there's a perception problem too. On top of that many heads of facilities, or heads of development for large companies come out of construction, this is especially true for government (universities, schools, etc). So the construction point of view tends to drive decisions, design is often a distant worry behind budget and schedule and logistics. You see this clearly with RFPs which often don't really care about your portfolio they just want to know if you've done a project like this before. So, for instance, if you want to do an elementary school the forces hiring the architect are mostly interested in if they've done similar projects, not necessarily whether they've done those projects well or advanced design or any of the stuff architects care about. So there's a disconnect in terms of what architects want their clients to value versus what client's actually value. There is a huge gulf of value proposition in construction economics. Architects and designers literally create the products that make their clients money but there is no return on value. A hotel might make hundreds of millions of dollars of value for a developer, but the architect or design team might be only making a few hundred thousand in fees. There's an extreme difference between value generated and value compensated for. Design trades might actually be among the worst businesses to be in because many firms are operating at slim, to no margins and often basically working for free if projects stretch on or the client isn't good about paying on time. Celebrity architecture firms often charge more because of demand. But those businesses are often large. Several hundred employees with a lot of overhead. SOM can charge 5 million but they're doing Burj Khalifa. Lastly architecture being a service business typically struggles in the accounts receivable department. The field is plagued by clients who don't want to pay or don't pay on time (often due to the fact when a developer has capital available is out of step with the payment schedule). And these projects have long gestation times typically two years or more. And the fees and budgets are set at the outset of a project when you know the least about what you're doing. And before a GC is brought on board so you have no idea what the construction costs will come back as and whether or not there will be a VE exercise which can account for many billable hours (often a redesign) that has to be accounted for before you even know what you're doing with the project. So then design firms get into the hell of additional services which owners don't want to pay because they didn't budget for it. It's a huge mess. A guild or trade union would start to solve a lot of this. Similar to how Hollywood works. If you are an actor or director worth your salt you have to be in a guild in order to be hired. And companies have to be signatories of that guild. So for example to work on an ABC network show you have to be in the directors guild because ABC is a DGA signatory. This establishes a baseline of quality and understood expectations for costs. The guild also offers a layer of protection to directors. Only no budget indie films would hire a non SAG actor because no actors get taken seriously unless they're in SAG. It adds a layer of credentials that you're someone trustworthy and the guilds tend to be invite only. So that protects clients because level of talent or expertise is pre filtered and there are legals in place for when agreements fall apart. I don't think architects need the equivalent of IBEW and obviously it gets tricky internationally, but some collective bargaining apparatus and universalizing of basic fee and pay conditions at least in RIBA and AIA countries would go a long way especially with the field moving quickly toward hybridizing with the tech industry as web 3.0 and technologies like metaverse, etc. begin to emerge.

From my personal experience it's all about what new grads can take. Often most are not confident in their abilities and will take any role at any pay . My first job out of school in 2018 I started at 70k. Slowly I been switching jobs every year and now my salary sits at 100k with no license or being a project manager . I also snagged a second job at 80k for mostly doing BIM coordination that I do simultaneously as my main J1. I work from home for both jobs. Don't take any less than your worth and keep shopping around .

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6tmor

ik6iy2h

Construction economics don't favor the designers is a big part of it. Architects are also non union so they can't establish wage ranges that their clients have to adhere to. Contractors are generally unionized and contractors fees are often much higher. Often 20 percent of the overall construction costs. So on a 10 million dollar building that's 2 million. No architecture firm can bill 2 million against a 10 million construction budget. They'd never get hired. In fact the entirety of the design trade fees (structure, landscape, lighting, MEP, interiors, life safety, etc) likely wouldn't even add up to 2 million. Now it's not that every GC is living in Bel Air because the economic risk for construction is much higher. But when times are good GCs really benefit because they also can respond to demand and increase their fees accordingly. Also contractors have a second revenue stream where they buy materials at a lesser cost but charge the client full cost and pocket the difference. Architects generally aren't allowed to do stuff like that. The top architecture firm in the world is Gensler who billed $565 million for 2021. Gensler has 50 offices worldwide. In contrast the largest general contractor Turner billed $14 billion and there were fifty-six contractors whose revenue exceeded one billion dollars last year. It's a huge difference (there's a lot of complex reasons for this, but in terms of construction economics developers and contractors are the winners). Architects have historically been terrible advocates with poor business skills. The AIA in particular is a pretty weak lobby. Some other trades try here and there to charge more. Interior Design and MEP for example but often they can't cost more than the architect on a job in many clients eyes. And many many developers and clients view projects through the lens of construction and only see the design team as a commoditized means to an end. So there's a perception problem too. On top of that many heads of facilities, or heads of development for large companies come out of construction, this is especially true for government (universities, schools, etc). So the construction point of view tends to drive decisions, design is often a distant worry behind budget and schedule and logistics. You see this clearly with RFPs which often don't really care about your portfolio they just want to know if you've done a project like this before. So, for instance, if you want to do an elementary school the forces hiring the architect are mostly interested in if they've done similar projects, not necessarily whether they've done those projects well or advanced design or any of the stuff architects care about. So there's a disconnect in terms of what architects want their clients to value versus what client's actually value. There is a huge gulf of value proposition in construction economics. Architects and designers literally create the products that make their clients money but there is no return on value. A hotel might make hundreds of millions of dollars of value for a developer, but the architect or design team might be only making a few hundred thousand in fees. There's an extreme difference between value generated and value compensated for. Design trades might actually be among the worst businesses to be in because many firms are operating at slim, to no margins and often basically working for free if projects stretch on or the client isn't good about paying on time. Celebrity architecture firms often charge more because of demand. But those businesses are often large. Several hundred employees with a lot of overhead. SOM can charge 5 million but they're doing Burj Khalifa. Lastly architecture being a service business typically struggles in the accounts receivable department. The field is plagued by clients who don't want to pay or don't pay on time (often due to the fact when a developer has capital available is out of step with the payment schedule). And these projects have long gestation times typically two years or more. And the fees and budgets are set at the outset of a project when you know the least about what you're doing. And before a GC is brought on board so you have no idea what the construction costs will come back as and whether or not there will be a VE exercise which can account for many billable hours (often a redesign) that has to be accounted for before you even know what you're doing with the project. So then design firms get into the hell of additional services which owners don't want to pay because they didn't budget for it. It's a huge mess. A guild or trade union would start to solve a lot of this. Similar to how Hollywood works. If you are an actor or director worth your salt you have to be in a guild in order to be hired. And companies have to be signatories of that guild. So for example to work on an ABC network show you have to be in the directors guild because ABC is a DGA signatory. This establishes a baseline of quality and understood expectations for costs. The guild also offers a layer of protection to directors. Only no budget indie films would hire a non SAG actor because no actors get taken seriously unless they're in SAG. It adds a layer of credentials that you're someone trustworthy and the guilds tend to be invite only. So that protects clients because level of talent or expertise is pre filtered and there are legals in place for when agreements fall apart. I don't think architects need the equivalent of IBEW and obviously it gets tricky internationally, but some collective bargaining apparatus and universalizing of basic fee and pay conditions at least in RIBA and AIA countries would go a long way especially with the field moving quickly toward hybridizing with the tech industry as web 3.0 and technologies like metaverse, etc. begin to emerge.

Because there are many doe-eyed rosy little cucks that want to get into the profession and don't mind taking it up behind for years (a.k.a crap wages). Degrees used to be special in the 1950s when <10% had one. Today it has become a commodity, so you need to study many more years in order to be deserving of a non-starvation income.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6tmor

ik6kmd3

Construction economics don't favor the designers is a big part of it. Architects are also non union so they can't establish wage ranges that their clients have to adhere to. Contractors are generally unionized and contractors fees are often much higher. Often 20 percent of the overall construction costs. So on a 10 million dollar building that's 2 million. No architecture firm can bill 2 million against a 10 million construction budget. They'd never get hired. In fact the entirety of the design trade fees (structure, landscape, lighting, MEP, interiors, life safety, etc) likely wouldn't even add up to 2 million. Now it's not that every GC is living in Bel Air because the economic risk for construction is much higher. But when times are good GCs really benefit because they also can respond to demand and increase their fees accordingly. Also contractors have a second revenue stream where they buy materials at a lesser cost but charge the client full cost and pocket the difference. Architects generally aren't allowed to do stuff like that. The top architecture firm in the world is Gensler who billed $565 million for 2021. Gensler has 50 offices worldwide. In contrast the largest general contractor Turner billed $14 billion and there were fifty-six contractors whose revenue exceeded one billion dollars last year. It's a huge difference (there's a lot of complex reasons for this, but in terms of construction economics developers and contractors are the winners). Architects have historically been terrible advocates with poor business skills. The AIA in particular is a pretty weak lobby. Some other trades try here and there to charge more. Interior Design and MEP for example but often they can't cost more than the architect on a job in many clients eyes. And many many developers and clients view projects through the lens of construction and only see the design team as a commoditized means to an end. So there's a perception problem too. On top of that many heads of facilities, or heads of development for large companies come out of construction, this is especially true for government (universities, schools, etc). So the construction point of view tends to drive decisions, design is often a distant worry behind budget and schedule and logistics. You see this clearly with RFPs which often don't really care about your portfolio they just want to know if you've done a project like this before. So, for instance, if you want to do an elementary school the forces hiring the architect are mostly interested in if they've done similar projects, not necessarily whether they've done those projects well or advanced design or any of the stuff architects care about. So there's a disconnect in terms of what architects want their clients to value versus what client's actually value. There is a huge gulf of value proposition in construction economics. Architects and designers literally create the products that make their clients money but there is no return on value. A hotel might make hundreds of millions of dollars of value for a developer, but the architect or design team might be only making a few hundred thousand in fees. There's an extreme difference between value generated and value compensated for. Design trades might actually be among the worst businesses to be in because many firms are operating at slim, to no margins and often basically working for free if projects stretch on or the client isn't good about paying on time. Celebrity architecture firms often charge more because of demand. But those businesses are often large. Several hundred employees with a lot of overhead. SOM can charge 5 million but they're doing Burj Khalifa. Lastly architecture being a service business typically struggles in the accounts receivable department. The field is plagued by clients who don't want to pay or don't pay on time (often due to the fact when a developer has capital available is out of step with the payment schedule). And these projects have long gestation times typically two years or more. And the fees and budgets are set at the outset of a project when you know the least about what you're doing. And before a GC is brought on board so you have no idea what the construction costs will come back as and whether or not there will be a VE exercise which can account for many billable hours (often a redesign) that has to be accounted for before you even know what you're doing with the project. So then design firms get into the hell of additional services which owners don't want to pay because they didn't budget for it. It's a huge mess. A guild or trade union would start to solve a lot of this. Similar to how Hollywood works. If you are an actor or director worth your salt you have to be in a guild in order to be hired. And companies have to be signatories of that guild. So for example to work on an ABC network show you have to be in the directors guild because ABC is a DGA signatory. This establishes a baseline of quality and understood expectations for costs. The guild also offers a layer of protection to directors. Only no budget indie films would hire a non SAG actor because no actors get taken seriously unless they're in SAG. It adds a layer of credentials that you're someone trustworthy and the guilds tend to be invite only. So that protects clients because level of talent or expertise is pre filtered and there are legals in place for when agreements fall apart. I don't think architects need the equivalent of IBEW and obviously it gets tricky internationally, but some collective bargaining apparatus and universalizing of basic fee and pay conditions at least in RIBA and AIA countries would go a long way especially with the field moving quickly toward hybridizing with the tech industry as web 3.0 and technologies like metaverse, etc. begin to emerge.

Supply and demand

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6j9zg

ik6tmor

At least in US, it seems like there are way too much supply of fresh college architecture graduates into the field where they are not needed at that level. In some high-demand fields, getting a good, reputable degree in that area can guarantee a job. From my experience, even architecture students at ivy leagues do not come close to that kind of demand. I have only been in the field for 2 years, and too many of my fellow graduates are already completely out of the field. Yet this was touted as positive thing in my undergrad. Apparently the exodus was due to the excellent renaissance education we all get as B. Arch students. Bullshit that. Architecture schools across the country bank in on the word "architect" and keeps this overflow of surplus of architecture graduates who cannot bargain much. This is one part of many reasons why bosses do not push for higher fees. Also, back in the day, AIA used to give guidance to fees. That was too close to industry-wide price fixing to the regulators. Many that had an impact, too? Though I am not sure if architects were flush with cash decades ago.

Construction economics don't favor the designers is a big part of it. Architects are also non union so they can't establish wage ranges that their clients have to adhere to. Contractors are generally unionized and contractors fees are often much higher. Often 20 percent of the overall construction costs. So on a 10 million dollar building that's 2 million. No architecture firm can bill 2 million against a 10 million construction budget. They'd never get hired. In fact the entirety of the design trade fees (structure, landscape, lighting, MEP, interiors, life safety, etc) likely wouldn't even add up to 2 million. Now it's not that every GC is living in Bel Air because the economic risk for construction is much higher. But when times are good GCs really benefit because they also can respond to demand and increase their fees accordingly. Also contractors have a second revenue stream where they buy materials at a lesser cost but charge the client full cost and pocket the difference. Architects generally aren't allowed to do stuff like that. The top architecture firm in the world is Gensler who billed $565 million for 2021. Gensler has 50 offices worldwide. In contrast the largest general contractor Turner billed $14 billion and there were fifty-six contractors whose revenue exceeded one billion dollars last year. It's a huge difference (there's a lot of complex reasons for this, but in terms of construction economics developers and contractors are the winners). Architects have historically been terrible advocates with poor business skills. The AIA in particular is a pretty weak lobby. Some other trades try here and there to charge more. Interior Design and MEP for example but often they can't cost more than the architect on a job in many clients eyes. And many many developers and clients view projects through the lens of construction and only see the design team as a commoditized means to an end. So there's a perception problem too. On top of that many heads of facilities, or heads of development for large companies come out of construction, this is especially true for government (universities, schools, etc). So the construction point of view tends to drive decisions, design is often a distant worry behind budget and schedule and logistics. You see this clearly with RFPs which often don't really care about your portfolio they just want to know if you've done a project like this before. So, for instance, if you want to do an elementary school the forces hiring the architect are mostly interested in if they've done similar projects, not necessarily whether they've done those projects well or advanced design or any of the stuff architects care about. So there's a disconnect in terms of what architects want their clients to value versus what client's actually value. There is a huge gulf of value proposition in construction economics. Architects and designers literally create the products that make their clients money but there is no return on value. A hotel might make hundreds of millions of dollars of value for a developer, but the architect or design team might be only making a few hundred thousand in fees. There's an extreme difference between value generated and value compensated for. Design trades might actually be among the worst businesses to be in because many firms are operating at slim, to no margins and often basically working for free if projects stretch on or the client isn't good about paying on time. Celebrity architecture firms often charge more because of demand. But those businesses are often large. Several hundred employees with a lot of overhead. SOM can charge 5 million but they're doing Burj Khalifa. Lastly architecture being a service business typically struggles in the accounts receivable department. The field is plagued by clients who don't want to pay or don't pay on time (often due to the fact when a developer has capital available is out of step with the payment schedule). And these projects have long gestation times typically two years or more. And the fees and budgets are set at the outset of a project when you know the least about what you're doing. And before a GC is brought on board so you have no idea what the construction costs will come back as and whether or not there will be a VE exercise which can account for many billable hours (often a redesign) that has to be accounted for before you even know what you're doing with the project. So then design firms get into the hell of additional services which owners don't want to pay because they didn't budget for it. It's a huge mess. A guild or trade union would start to solve a lot of this. Similar to how Hollywood works. If you are an actor or director worth your salt you have to be in a guild in order to be hired. And companies have to be signatories of that guild. So for example to work on an ABC network show you have to be in the directors guild because ABC is a DGA signatory. This establishes a baseline of quality and understood expectations for costs. The guild also offers a layer of protection to directors. Only no budget indie films would hire a non SAG actor because no actors get taken seriously unless they're in SAG. It adds a layer of credentials that you're someone trustworthy and the guilds tend to be invite only. So that protects clients because level of talent or expertise is pre filtered and there are legals in place for when agreements fall apart. I don't think architects need the equivalent of IBEW and obviously it gets tricky internationally, but some collective bargaining apparatus and universalizing of basic fee and pay conditions at least in RIBA and AIA countries would go a long way especially with the field moving quickly toward hybridizing with the tech industry as web 3.0 and technologies like metaverse, etc. begin to emerge.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6ssfs

ik6m6ds

Not right now. Not in Canada at least. The market is so tight and every major player is fighting for “talent”. And by “talent” I mean anyone who can open revit. Wages are skyrocketing with people jumping firms for 25% pay increases. It’s not at all sustainable but nice to see people finally getting paid appropriately. If you didn’t get a decent raise this year, I suggest you open LinkedIn and see what else is out there.

Antitrust lawsuit against the AIA prevents them from setting fee tables as they used to (unlike other professions like law or medicine with their respective organizational bodies). There was also the race to the bottom due to the '08 financial crisis with firms undercutting each other. And on top of things, there's just poor business sense amongst us and a highly academic mentality amongst industry leaders. At the end of the day, there are macroeconomic problems in the general economy- people in medicine and finance are grossly overpaid. On the flipside, as a profession architects are uniquely bad at lobbying, organizing, and business strategy. Things are slowly changing though, given the labor shortage and structural problems between the missing generation of mid-level people post '08 and now senior staff retiring. And I always say this when it comes to pay- we're paid low to *specific other professions requiring advanced degrees*\- in the scheme of the general economy, we're pretty well off. Like I can't deny I'm pretty comfortable- 3 years out of grad school and licensed, honestly I'm making a nice income that affords me a comfortable lifestyle. And at that, it's a mixed bag- I make more than my friends in law, comparable to friends in engineering, know people in tech and finance who are making modestly more than me (few thousand to maybe 15k more), and then a handful of them who are just grossly overpaid relative to the education they needed, the social value of what they do, and the complexity of it. But note here I'm comparing for the most part to highly credentialed people, all of whom went to name brand schools. Architects tend to hang out amongst people with similar levels of education, so when you're constantly surrounded by people making 150k+ a year, yeah we feel poor and undervalued. But then you have to figure upper double digits to low six figures (note, post-license here) is really nothing to scoff at. So, TLDR- there are aspects of the economy (at least in the US) that desperately need to change. There are problems within the field that also need to change. The two of these alter our pay in varying measures, but it's not an either/or scenario for improving the industry. Also, have some gratitude because the reality is we make a decent living and there are a ton of people far worse off than we are.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6ssfs

ik6nl8s

Not right now. Not in Canada at least. The market is so tight and every major player is fighting for “talent”. And by “talent” I mean anyone who can open revit. Wages are skyrocketing with people jumping firms for 25% pay increases. It’s not at all sustainable but nice to see people finally getting paid appropriately. If you didn’t get a decent raise this year, I suggest you open LinkedIn and see what else is out there.

Is this a US thing? Where I live an architect has a good salary (not top top, but you are doing well). A quick look showes it's about 28% above average, and 42% above median. Addition: Maybe the requirements for getting to call yourself an architect are different other places. Here you have to pass a rather intense 5 years (Masters).

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6ssfs

ik6rfnu

Not right now. Not in Canada at least. The market is so tight and every major player is fighting for “talent”. And by “talent” I mean anyone who can open revit. Wages are skyrocketing with people jumping firms for 25% pay increases. It’s not at all sustainable but nice to see people finally getting paid appropriately. If you didn’t get a decent raise this year, I suggest you open LinkedIn and see what else is out there.

From my personal experience it's all about what new grads can take. Often most are not confident in their abilities and will take any role at any pay . My first job out of school in 2018 I started at 70k. Slowly I been switching jobs every year and now my salary sits at 100k with no license or being a project manager . I also snagged a second job at 80k for mostly doing BIM coordination that I do simultaneously as my main J1. I work from home for both jobs. Don't take any less than your worth and keep shopping around .

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6ssfs

ik6iy2h

Not right now. Not in Canada at least. The market is so tight and every major player is fighting for “talent”. And by “talent” I mean anyone who can open revit. Wages are skyrocketing with people jumping firms for 25% pay increases. It’s not at all sustainable but nice to see people finally getting paid appropriately. If you didn’t get a decent raise this year, I suggest you open LinkedIn and see what else is out there.

Because there are many doe-eyed rosy little cucks that want to get into the profession and don't mind taking it up behind for years (a.k.a crap wages). Degrees used to be special in the 1950s when <10% had one. Today it has become a commodity, so you need to study many more years in order to be deserving of a non-starvation income.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6kmd3

ik6ssfs

Supply and demand

Not right now. Not in Canada at least. The market is so tight and every major player is fighting for “talent”. And by “talent” I mean anyone who can open revit. Wages are skyrocketing with people jumping firms for 25% pay increases. It’s not at all sustainable but nice to see people finally getting paid appropriately. If you didn’t get a decent raise this year, I suggest you open LinkedIn and see what else is out there.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6ssfs

ik6j9zg

Not right now. Not in Canada at least. The market is so tight and every major player is fighting for “talent”. And by “talent” I mean anyone who can open revit. Wages are skyrocketing with people jumping firms for 25% pay increases. It’s not at all sustainable but nice to see people finally getting paid appropriately. If you didn’t get a decent raise this year, I suggest you open LinkedIn and see what else is out there.

At least in US, it seems like there are way too much supply of fresh college architecture graduates into the field where they are not needed at that level. In some high-demand fields, getting a good, reputable degree in that area can guarantee a job. From my experience, even architecture students at ivy leagues do not come close to that kind of demand. I have only been in the field for 2 years, and too many of my fellow graduates are already completely out of the field. Yet this was touted as positive thing in my undergrad. Apparently the exodus was due to the excellent renaissance education we all get as B. Arch students. Bullshit that. Architecture schools across the country bank in on the word "architect" and keeps this overflow of surplus of architecture graduates who cannot bargain much. This is one part of many reasons why bosses do not push for higher fees. Also, back in the day, AIA used to give guidance to fees. That was too close to industry-wide price fixing to the regulators. Many that had an impact, too? Though I am not sure if architects were flush with cash decades ago.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6iy2h

ik6m6ds

Because there are many doe-eyed rosy little cucks that want to get into the profession and don't mind taking it up behind for years (a.k.a crap wages). Degrees used to be special in the 1950s when <10% had one. Today it has become a commodity, so you need to study many more years in order to be deserving of a non-starvation income.

Antitrust lawsuit against the AIA prevents them from setting fee tables as they used to (unlike other professions like law or medicine with their respective organizational bodies). There was also the race to the bottom due to the '08 financial crisis with firms undercutting each other. And on top of things, there's just poor business sense amongst us and a highly academic mentality amongst industry leaders. At the end of the day, there are macroeconomic problems in the general economy- people in medicine and finance are grossly overpaid. On the flipside, as a profession architects are uniquely bad at lobbying, organizing, and business strategy. Things are slowly changing though, given the labor shortage and structural problems between the missing generation of mid-level people post '08 and now senior staff retiring. And I always say this when it comes to pay- we're paid low to *specific other professions requiring advanced degrees*\- in the scheme of the general economy, we're pretty well off. Like I can't deny I'm pretty comfortable- 3 years out of grad school and licensed, honestly I'm making a nice income that affords me a comfortable lifestyle. And at that, it's a mixed bag- I make more than my friends in law, comparable to friends in engineering, know people in tech and finance who are making modestly more than me (few thousand to maybe 15k more), and then a handful of them who are just grossly overpaid relative to the education they needed, the social value of what they do, and the complexity of it. But note here I'm comparing for the most part to highly credentialed people, all of whom went to name brand schools. Architects tend to hang out amongst people with similar levels of education, so when you're constantly surrounded by people making 150k+ a year, yeah we feel poor and undervalued. But then you have to figure upper double digits to low six figures (note, post-license here) is really nothing to scoff at. So, TLDR- there are aspects of the economy (at least in the US) that desperately need to change. There are problems within the field that also need to change. The two of these alter our pay in varying measures, but it's not an either/or scenario for improving the industry. Also, have some gratitude because the reality is we make a decent living and there are a ton of people far worse off than we are.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6m6ds

ik6kmd3

Antitrust lawsuit against the AIA prevents them from setting fee tables as they used to (unlike other professions like law or medicine with their respective organizational bodies). There was also the race to the bottom due to the '08 financial crisis with firms undercutting each other. And on top of things, there's just poor business sense amongst us and a highly academic mentality amongst industry leaders. At the end of the day, there are macroeconomic problems in the general economy- people in medicine and finance are grossly overpaid. On the flipside, as a profession architects are uniquely bad at lobbying, organizing, and business strategy. Things are slowly changing though, given the labor shortage and structural problems between the missing generation of mid-level people post '08 and now senior staff retiring. And I always say this when it comes to pay- we're paid low to *specific other professions requiring advanced degrees*\- in the scheme of the general economy, we're pretty well off. Like I can't deny I'm pretty comfortable- 3 years out of grad school and licensed, honestly I'm making a nice income that affords me a comfortable lifestyle. And at that, it's a mixed bag- I make more than my friends in law, comparable to friends in engineering, know people in tech and finance who are making modestly more than me (few thousand to maybe 15k more), and then a handful of them who are just grossly overpaid relative to the education they needed, the social value of what they do, and the complexity of it. But note here I'm comparing for the most part to highly credentialed people, all of whom went to name brand schools. Architects tend to hang out amongst people with similar levels of education, so when you're constantly surrounded by people making 150k+ a year, yeah we feel poor and undervalued. But then you have to figure upper double digits to low six figures (note, post-license here) is really nothing to scoff at. So, TLDR- there are aspects of the economy (at least in the US) that desperately need to change. There are problems within the field that also need to change. The two of these alter our pay in varying measures, but it's not an either/or scenario for improving the industry. Also, have some gratitude because the reality is we make a decent living and there are a ton of people far worse off than we are.

Supply and demand

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6j9zg

ik6m6ds

At least in US, it seems like there are way too much supply of fresh college architecture graduates into the field where they are not needed at that level. In some high-demand fields, getting a good, reputable degree in that area can guarantee a job. From my experience, even architecture students at ivy leagues do not come close to that kind of demand. I have only been in the field for 2 years, and too many of my fellow graduates are already completely out of the field. Yet this was touted as positive thing in my undergrad. Apparently the exodus was due to the excellent renaissance education we all get as B. Arch students. Bullshit that. Architecture schools across the country bank in on the word "architect" and keeps this overflow of surplus of architecture graduates who cannot bargain much. This is one part of many reasons why bosses do not push for higher fees. Also, back in the day, AIA used to give guidance to fees. That was too close to industry-wide price fixing to the regulators. Many that had an impact, too? Though I am not sure if architects were flush with cash decades ago.

Antitrust lawsuit against the AIA prevents them from setting fee tables as they used to (unlike other professions like law or medicine with their respective organizational bodies). There was also the race to the bottom due to the '08 financial crisis with firms undercutting each other. And on top of things, there's just poor business sense amongst us and a highly academic mentality amongst industry leaders. At the end of the day, there are macroeconomic problems in the general economy- people in medicine and finance are grossly overpaid. On the flipside, as a profession architects are uniquely bad at lobbying, organizing, and business strategy. Things are slowly changing though, given the labor shortage and structural problems between the missing generation of mid-level people post '08 and now senior staff retiring. And I always say this when it comes to pay- we're paid low to *specific other professions requiring advanced degrees*\- in the scheme of the general economy, we're pretty well off. Like I can't deny I'm pretty comfortable- 3 years out of grad school and licensed, honestly I'm making a nice income that affords me a comfortable lifestyle. And at that, it's a mixed bag- I make more than my friends in law, comparable to friends in engineering, know people in tech and finance who are making modestly more than me (few thousand to maybe 15k more), and then a handful of them who are just grossly overpaid relative to the education they needed, the social value of what they do, and the complexity of it. But note here I'm comparing for the most part to highly credentialed people, all of whom went to name brand schools. Architects tend to hang out amongst people with similar levels of education, so when you're constantly surrounded by people making 150k+ a year, yeah we feel poor and undervalued. But then you have to figure upper double digits to low six figures (note, post-license here) is really nothing to scoff at. So, TLDR- there are aspects of the economy (at least in the US) that desperately need to change. There are problems within the field that also need to change. The two of these alter our pay in varying measures, but it's not an either/or scenario for improving the industry. Also, have some gratitude because the reality is we make a decent living and there are a ton of people far worse off than we are.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6nl8s

ik6wcsd

Is this a US thing? Where I live an architect has a good salary (not top top, but you are doing well). A quick look showes it's about 28% above average, and 42% above median. Addition: Maybe the requirements for getting to call yourself an architect are different other places. Here you have to pass a rather intense 5 years (Masters).

I think the aia has a huge part to it tbh. They state really low compensation that firms should pay their employees. If you ask anyone in architecture how much you should be compensated they always quote the aia website on salary for any position. But thats just my opinion.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6wcsd

ik6rfnu

I think the aia has a huge part to it tbh. They state really low compensation that firms should pay their employees. If you ask anyone in architecture how much you should be compensated they always quote the aia website on salary for any position. But thats just my opinion.

From my personal experience it's all about what new grads can take. Often most are not confident in their abilities and will take any role at any pay . My first job out of school in 2018 I started at 70k. Slowly I been switching jobs every year and now my salary sits at 100k with no license or being a project manager . I also snagged a second job at 80k for mostly doing BIM coordination that I do simultaneously as my main J1. I work from home for both jobs. Don't take any less than your worth and keep shopping around .

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6wcsd

ik6iy2h

I think the aia has a huge part to it tbh. They state really low compensation that firms should pay their employees. If you ask anyone in architecture how much you should be compensated they always quote the aia website on salary for any position. But thats just my opinion.

Because there are many doe-eyed rosy little cucks that want to get into the profession and don't mind taking it up behind for years (a.k.a crap wages). Degrees used to be special in the 1950s when <10% had one. Today it has become a commodity, so you need to study many more years in order to be deserving of a non-starvation income.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6kmd3

ik6wcsd

Supply and demand

I think the aia has a huge part to it tbh. They state really low compensation that firms should pay their employees. If you ask anyone in architecture how much you should be compensated they always quote the aia website on salary for any position. But thats just my opinion.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6wcsd

ik6j9zg

I think the aia has a huge part to it tbh. They state really low compensation that firms should pay their employees. If you ask anyone in architecture how much you should be compensated they always quote the aia website on salary for any position. But thats just my opinion.

At least in US, it seems like there are way too much supply of fresh college architecture graduates into the field where they are not needed at that level. In some high-demand fields, getting a good, reputable degree in that area can guarantee a job. From my experience, even architecture students at ivy leagues do not come close to that kind of demand. I have only been in the field for 2 years, and too many of my fellow graduates are already completely out of the field. Yet this was touted as positive thing in my undergrad. Apparently the exodus was due to the excellent renaissance education we all get as B. Arch students. Bullshit that. Architecture schools across the country bank in on the word "architect" and keeps this overflow of surplus of architecture graduates who cannot bargain much. This is one part of many reasons why bosses do not push for higher fees. Also, back in the day, AIA used to give guidance to fees. That was too close to industry-wide price fixing to the regulators. Many that had an impact, too? Though I am not sure if architects were flush with cash decades ago.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6iy2h

ik6nl8s

Because there are many doe-eyed rosy little cucks that want to get into the profession and don't mind taking it up behind for years (a.k.a crap wages). Degrees used to be special in the 1950s when <10% had one. Today it has become a commodity, so you need to study many more years in order to be deserving of a non-starvation income.

Is this a US thing? Where I live an architect has a good salary (not top top, but you are doing well). A quick look showes it's about 28% above average, and 42% above median. Addition: Maybe the requirements for getting to call yourself an architect are different other places. Here you have to pass a rather intense 5 years (Masters).

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6nl8s

ik6kmd3

Is this a US thing? Where I live an architect has a good salary (not top top, but you are doing well). A quick look showes it's about 28% above average, and 42% above median. Addition: Maybe the requirements for getting to call yourself an architect are different other places. Here you have to pass a rather intense 5 years (Masters).

Supply and demand

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6j9zg

ik6nl8s

At least in US, it seems like there are way too much supply of fresh college architecture graduates into the field where they are not needed at that level. In some high-demand fields, getting a good, reputable degree in that area can guarantee a job. From my experience, even architecture students at ivy leagues do not come close to that kind of demand. I have only been in the field for 2 years, and too many of my fellow graduates are already completely out of the field. Yet this was touted as positive thing in my undergrad. Apparently the exodus was due to the excellent renaissance education we all get as B. Arch students. Bullshit that. Architecture schools across the country bank in on the word "architect" and keeps this overflow of surplus of architecture graduates who cannot bargain much. This is one part of many reasons why bosses do not push for higher fees. Also, back in the day, AIA used to give guidance to fees. That was too close to industry-wide price fixing to the regulators. Many that had an impact, too? Though I am not sure if architects were flush with cash decades ago.

Is this a US thing? Where I live an architect has a good salary (not top top, but you are doing well). A quick look showes it's about 28% above average, and 42% above median. Addition: Maybe the requirements for getting to call yourself an architect are different other places. Here you have to pass a rather intense 5 years (Masters).

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6rfnu

ik6iy2h

From my personal experience it's all about what new grads can take. Often most are not confident in their abilities and will take any role at any pay . My first job out of school in 2018 I started at 70k. Slowly I been switching jobs every year and now my salary sits at 100k with no license or being a project manager . I also snagged a second job at 80k for mostly doing BIM coordination that I do simultaneously as my main J1. I work from home for both jobs. Don't take any less than your worth and keep shopping around .

Because there are many doe-eyed rosy little cucks that want to get into the profession and don't mind taking it up behind for years (a.k.a crap wages). Degrees used to be special in the 1950s when <10% had one. Today it has become a commodity, so you need to study many more years in order to be deserving of a non-starvation income.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6rfnu

ik6kmd3

From my personal experience it's all about what new grads can take. Often most are not confident in their abilities and will take any role at any pay . My first job out of school in 2018 I started at 70k. Slowly I been switching jobs every year and now my salary sits at 100k with no license or being a project manager . I also snagged a second job at 80k for mostly doing BIM coordination that I do simultaneously as my main J1. I work from home for both jobs. Don't take any less than your worth and keep shopping around .

Supply and demand

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6j9zg

ik6rfnu

At least in US, it seems like there are way too much supply of fresh college architecture graduates into the field where they are not needed at that level. In some high-demand fields, getting a good, reputable degree in that area can guarantee a job. From my experience, even architecture students at ivy leagues do not come close to that kind of demand. I have only been in the field for 2 years, and too many of my fellow graduates are already completely out of the field. Yet this was touted as positive thing in my undergrad. Apparently the exodus was due to the excellent renaissance education we all get as B. Arch students. Bullshit that. Architecture schools across the country bank in on the word "architect" and keeps this overflow of surplus of architecture graduates who cannot bargain much. This is one part of many reasons why bosses do not push for higher fees. Also, back in the day, AIA used to give guidance to fees. That was too close to industry-wide price fixing to the regulators. Many that had an impact, too? Though I am not sure if architects were flush with cash decades ago.

From my personal experience it's all about what new grads can take. Often most are not confident in their abilities and will take any role at any pay . My first job out of school in 2018 I started at 70k. Slowly I been switching jobs every year and now my salary sits at 100k with no license or being a project manager . I also snagged a second job at 80k for mostly doing BIM coordination that I do simultaneously as my main J1. I work from home for both jobs. Don't take any less than your worth and keep shopping around .

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6iy2h

ik6zr9o

Because there are many doe-eyed rosy little cucks that want to get into the profession and don't mind taking it up behind for years (a.k.a crap wages). Degrees used to be special in the 1950s when <10% had one. Today it has become a commodity, so you need to study many more years in order to be deserving of a non-starvation income.

Architects also need to work more efficiently. When your process to completion is iterative you can spend a lot of time getting to a solution. Very few professions have unlimited paths to completion of a task. Imagine if a brain surgeon needed to come up with creative ways to remove the tumor for every single operation!! Many principals I know are content with their income and do not maximise profit. There are efficient architecture firms whose principals pull in 7 figures.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6kmd3

ik6zr9o

Supply and demand

Architects also need to work more efficiently. When your process to completion is iterative you can spend a lot of time getting to a solution. Very few professions have unlimited paths to completion of a task. Imagine if a brain surgeon needed to come up with creative ways to remove the tumor for every single operation!! Many principals I know are content with their income and do not maximise profit. There are efficient architecture firms whose principals pull in 7 figures.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6zr9o

ik6xoik

Architects also need to work more efficiently. When your process to completion is iterative you can spend a lot of time getting to a solution. Very few professions have unlimited paths to completion of a task. Imagine if a brain surgeon needed to come up with creative ways to remove the tumor for every single operation!! Many principals I know are content with their income and do not maximise profit. There are efficient architecture firms whose principals pull in 7 figures.

Non-licensed. 15+ years experience. Salary still is about of a struggle, but there are so many factors as others have pointed out like the fee undercutting for winning projects. That drops the whole profession down.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6j9zg

ik6zr9o

At least in US, it seems like there are way too much supply of fresh college architecture graduates into the field where they are not needed at that level. In some high-demand fields, getting a good, reputable degree in that area can guarantee a job. From my experience, even architecture students at ivy leagues do not come close to that kind of demand. I have only been in the field for 2 years, and too many of my fellow graduates are already completely out of the field. Yet this was touted as positive thing in my undergrad. Apparently the exodus was due to the excellent renaissance education we all get as B. Arch students. Bullshit that. Architecture schools across the country bank in on the word "architect" and keeps this overflow of surplus of architecture graduates who cannot bargain much. This is one part of many reasons why bosses do not push for higher fees. Also, back in the day, AIA used to give guidance to fees. That was too close to industry-wide price fixing to the regulators. Many that had an impact, too? Though I am not sure if architects were flush with cash decades ago.

Architects also need to work more efficiently. When your process to completion is iterative you can spend a lot of time getting to a solution. Very few professions have unlimited paths to completion of a task. Imagine if a brain surgeon needed to come up with creative ways to remove the tumor for every single operation!! Many principals I know are content with their income and do not maximise profit. There are efficient architecture firms whose principals pull in 7 figures.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik731nj

ik6iy2h

5 years experience, non-licensed in Kansas City, MO. Pay is pretty brutal. Honestly it's burning me out of the profession. I definitely started as one of the doe-eyed idiots out of college but it was difficult to even get my firm to acknowledge the inflation rate and that anything less than an 7%-8% raise is a pay cut. I wish there was a silver lining but in my experience, by the time any of us (working class) get to a level we can make a difference, we're on the other side of the negotiating table from employees and no longer want to give raises. Sorry if this is a bit cynical, hopefully others have had a better experience.

Because there are many doe-eyed rosy little cucks that want to get into the profession and don't mind taking it up behind for years (a.k.a crap wages). Degrees used to be special in the 1950s when <10% had one. Today it has become a commodity, so you need to study many more years in order to be deserving of a non-starvation income.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik731nj

ik6kmd3

5 years experience, non-licensed in Kansas City, MO. Pay is pretty brutal. Honestly it's burning me out of the profession. I definitely started as one of the doe-eyed idiots out of college but it was difficult to even get my firm to acknowledge the inflation rate and that anything less than an 7%-8% raise is a pay cut. I wish there was a silver lining but in my experience, by the time any of us (working class) get to a level we can make a difference, we're on the other side of the negotiating table from employees and no longer want to give raises. Sorry if this is a bit cynical, hopefully others have had a better experience.

Supply and demand

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik731nj

ik6xoik

5 years experience, non-licensed in Kansas City, MO. Pay is pretty brutal. Honestly it's burning me out of the profession. I definitely started as one of the doe-eyed idiots out of college but it was difficult to even get my firm to acknowledge the inflation rate and that anything less than an 7%-8% raise is a pay cut. I wish there was a silver lining but in my experience, by the time any of us (working class) get to a level we can make a difference, we're on the other side of the negotiating table from employees and no longer want to give raises. Sorry if this is a bit cynical, hopefully others have had a better experience.

Non-licensed. 15+ years experience. Salary still is about of a struggle, but there are so many factors as others have pointed out like the fee undercutting for winning projects. That drops the whole profession down.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik731nj

ik6j9zg

5 years experience, non-licensed in Kansas City, MO. Pay is pretty brutal. Honestly it's burning me out of the profession. I definitely started as one of the doe-eyed idiots out of college but it was difficult to even get my firm to acknowledge the inflation rate and that anything less than an 7%-8% raise is a pay cut. I wish there was a silver lining but in my experience, by the time any of us (working class) get to a level we can make a difference, we're on the other side of the negotiating table from employees and no longer want to give raises. Sorry if this is a bit cynical, hopefully others have had a better experience.

At least in US, it seems like there are way too much supply of fresh college architecture graduates into the field where they are not needed at that level. In some high-demand fields, getting a good, reputable degree in that area can guarantee a job. From my experience, even architecture students at ivy leagues do not come close to that kind of demand. I have only been in the field for 2 years, and too many of my fellow graduates are already completely out of the field. Yet this was touted as positive thing in my undergrad. Apparently the exodus was due to the excellent renaissance education we all get as B. Arch students. Bullshit that. Architecture schools across the country bank in on the word "architect" and keeps this overflow of surplus of architecture graduates who cannot bargain much. This is one part of many reasons why bosses do not push for higher fees. Also, back in the day, AIA used to give guidance to fees. That was too close to industry-wide price fixing to the regulators. Many that had an impact, too? Though I am not sure if architects were flush with cash decades ago.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6kmd3

ik6j9zg

Supply and demand

At least in US, it seems like there are way too much supply of fresh college architecture graduates into the field where they are not needed at that level. In some high-demand fields, getting a good, reputable degree in that area can guarantee a job. From my experience, even architecture students at ivy leagues do not come close to that kind of demand. I have only been in the field for 2 years, and too many of my fellow graduates are already completely out of the field. Yet this was touted as positive thing in my undergrad. Apparently the exodus was due to the excellent renaissance education we all get as B. Arch students. Bullshit that. Architecture schools across the country bank in on the word "architect" and keeps this overflow of surplus of architecture graduates who cannot bargain much. This is one part of many reasons why bosses do not push for higher fees. Also, back in the day, AIA used to give guidance to fees. That was too close to industry-wide price fixing to the regulators. Many that had an impact, too? Though I am not sure if architects were flush with cash decades ago.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik6xoik

ik7hhd5

Non-licensed. 15+ years experience. Salary still is about of a struggle, but there are so many factors as others have pointed out like the fee undercutting for winning projects. That drops the whole profession down.

in australia qualified architects on average get payed anywhere from 80,000 - 120,000 per annum

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik7hhd5

ik6j9zg

in australia qualified architects on average get payed anywhere from 80,000 - 120,000 per annum

At least in US, it seems like there are way too much supply of fresh college architecture graduates into the field where they are not needed at that level. In some high-demand fields, getting a good, reputable degree in that area can guarantee a job. From my experience, even architecture students at ivy leagues do not come close to that kind of demand. I have only been in the field for 2 years, and too many of my fellow graduates are already completely out of the field. Yet this was touted as positive thing in my undergrad. Apparently the exodus was due to the excellent renaissance education we all get as B. Arch students. Bullshit that. Architecture schools across the country bank in on the word "architect" and keeps this overflow of surplus of architecture graduates who cannot bargain much. This is one part of many reasons why bosses do not push for higher fees. Also, back in the day, AIA used to give guidance to fees. That was too close to industry-wide price fixing to the regulators. Many that had an impact, too? Though I am not sure if architects were flush with cash decades ago.

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik78u8k

ik7hhd5

Simple. Supply > demand.

in australia qualified architects on average get payed anywhere from 80,000 - 120,000 per annum

wnoev1

architecture_train

Why architects get paid so much less than everyone? eventhough the study is so hard compared to any other profession.. It makes me sad about the passionate architects, and also worried about the sustainability of the profession in the future

ik7ijla

ik78u8k

How architecture firms do their work… I have not been to small firms like less than 30 people ones so I am not going to comment on those… in morien to large firms, the people who actually doing drafting, modeling or anything related to the ‘work skills’ we learn in schools are not paid so well. The principles will be in the meetings, responding emails, dealing with all the client end things. However, in between the drafting people, people coordinating and meeting client’s requirements, there are so many internal meetings to deal with. All these communication time would be efficiently saved if the ‘mind’ can actually ‘draw’. Worse than this, there are new programs/ softwares/ gadgets make drafting/ data input / calculating so much easier, but the principles have left the whole production field behind and they don’t even know who to hire, how to utilize effort - which cause a lot of frictions and adding burdens on top of everything . And there is always the unethical competition. A firm can somehow exploit some students and graduate to reduce the fees and bring down everyone else.

Simple. Supply > demand.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6b370

iu6c9y3

Architects are very underpaid considering the little bit of prestige we have. We can even be compared to Doctors and Lawyers. Except for the Starchitects out there the average Architect isn't making great money. My recommendation would be to find a job and then look for a better one. Always make sure you can do moonlighting on the side to make some extra money.

Architects are forced to bid against each other for many projects, something doctors and lawyers as professional do not have to do. On top of that, the people that finance projects look to cut costs, including fees to architects. Our firm could charge more and still be a great deal, but we'd lose out on work as we would be undercut fee-wise by numerous other architects. In short, in order for architects to be paid what they are really worth, you need to convince the people who pay for our services that we are worth far more, and you have to convince everyone that bidding for architectural services is destroying the profession.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6c9y3

iu6bwxb

Architects are forced to bid against each other for many projects, something doctors and lawyers as professional do not have to do. On top of that, the people that finance projects look to cut costs, including fees to architects. Our firm could charge more and still be a great deal, but we'd lose out on work as we would be undercut fee-wise by numerous other architects. In short, in order for architects to be paid what they are really worth, you need to convince the people who pay for our services that we are worth far more, and you have to convince everyone that bidding for architectural services is destroying the profession.

To oversimplify, more people want to be architects than the market will bear, despite the many years of education required. Like teaching, it seems to be a calling rather than a solid plan to make money commensurate with the education required.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6c9y3

iu6b9yx

Architects are forced to bid against each other for many projects, something doctors and lawyers as professional do not have to do. On top of that, the people that finance projects look to cut costs, including fees to architects. Our firm could charge more and still be a great deal, but we'd lose out on work as we would be undercut fee-wise by numerous other architects. In short, in order for architects to be paid what they are really worth, you need to convince the people who pay for our services that we are worth far more, and you have to convince everyone that bidding for architectural services is destroying the profession.

How many years of experience do you have ?

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6ryir

iu7n7px

I make more money in my first year in an entry level construction position that requires a 4 year degree (project engineer) than I made in 7 years as a Project Manager with my Masters degree.

I just had this conversation with my boss at my salary review which I did not hide that I was disappointed by the evaluation. He was proud to tell me in his day he would work way more than 8 hours for his paycheck and that what I'm asking for is steep. I calmly let him know that these days, that's abuse and we need to work on bettering the industry for everyone's sake. He didn't disagree.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu7n7px

iu6n54m

I just had this conversation with my boss at my salary review which I did not hide that I was disappointed by the evaluation. He was proud to tell me in his day he would work way more than 8 hours for his paycheck and that what I'm asking for is steep. I calmly let him know that these days, that's abuse and we need to work on bettering the industry for everyone's sake. He didn't disagree.

Architects should have unionized like the rest of the construction industry did generations ago. We would have a much better built environment and building designers would be fairly compensated. It is absurd that a lot of us make far less than other less skilled tradesmen.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu70pot

iu7n7px

This my advice for all young graduates . If you want to make money go into construction and use your Revit skills there . You will learn more about building science and constructability. Then find remote jobs and do contract work with 3 firms . Boom paychecks roll in

I just had this conversation with my boss at my salary review which I did not hide that I was disappointed by the evaluation. He was proud to tell me in his day he would work way more than 8 hours for his paycheck and that what I'm asking for is steep. I calmly let him know that these days, that's abuse and we need to work on bettering the industry for everyone's sake. He didn't disagree.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu7n7px

iu7bsb1

I just had this conversation with my boss at my salary review which I did not hide that I was disappointed by the evaluation. He was proud to tell me in his day he would work way more than 8 hours for his paycheck and that what I'm asking for is steep. I calmly let him know that these days, that's abuse and we need to work on bettering the industry for everyone's sake. He didn't disagree.

Tortured artist mystique that has to die.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu7n7px

iu7gxzp

I just had this conversation with my boss at my salary review which I did not hide that I was disappointed by the evaluation. He was proud to tell me in his day he would work way more than 8 hours for his paycheck and that what I'm asking for is steep. I calmly let him know that these days, that's abuse and we need to work on bettering the industry for everyone's sake. He didn't disagree.

Stop selling architecture as art. Thats when we make more money

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu7n7px

iu7a0t7

I just had this conversation with my boss at my salary review which I did not hide that I was disappointed by the evaluation. He was proud to tell me in his day he would work way more than 8 hours for his paycheck and that what I'm asking for is steep. I calmly let him know that these days, that's abuse and we need to work on bettering the industry for everyone's sake. He didn't disagree.

The "is it worth it?" question is the crux of the issue. Architecture an interesting career that can be very rewarding. But given how much work is required to be good at this job, you can put in half the effort into another job and get paid double. After 17 years of sticking with it, I jumped ship and switched careers to system administration. Double the pay/benefits. It's just not worth it plugging away daily for so little. I'm licensed so I have been doing some jobs on the side to keep my architecture skills up to date.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu7n7px

iu78bsk

I just had this conversation with my boss at my salary review which I did not hide that I was disappointed by the evaluation. He was proud to tell me in his day he would work way more than 8 hours for his paycheck and that what I'm asking for is steep. I calmly let him know that these days, that's abuse and we need to work on bettering the industry for everyone's sake. He didn't disagree.

Competition is high basically , and the reality is the developers make all the money , architects and engineers just get the scraps kind of .

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu7c9b1

iu7n7px

Design is seen as a commodity, whoever is low bid will get the job. It’s ironic though because design significantly affects the final cost of work. I think by choosing to spend more on design up front owners would get better and more complete designs - which would reduce uncertainty/risk going into construction which would be a big cost benefit to the project.

I just had this conversation with my boss at my salary review which I did not hide that I was disappointed by the evaluation. He was proud to tell me in his day he would work way more than 8 hours for his paycheck and that what I'm asking for is steep. I calmly let him know that these days, that's abuse and we need to work on bettering the industry for everyone's sake. He didn't disagree.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6b370

iu7n7px

Architects are very underpaid considering the little bit of prestige we have. We can even be compared to Doctors and Lawyers. Except for the Starchitects out there the average Architect isn't making great money. My recommendation would be to find a job and then look for a better one. Always make sure you can do moonlighting on the side to make some extra money.

I just had this conversation with my boss at my salary review which I did not hide that I was disappointed by the evaluation. He was proud to tell me in his day he would work way more than 8 hours for his paycheck and that what I'm asking for is steep. I calmly let him know that these days, that's abuse and we need to work on bettering the industry for everyone's sake. He didn't disagree.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu7k5hh

iu7n7px

Literally everyone except the elite class is underpaid

I just had this conversation with my boss at my salary review which I did not hide that I was disappointed by the evaluation. He was proud to tell me in his day he would work way more than 8 hours for his paycheck and that what I'm asking for is steep. I calmly let him know that these days, that's abuse and we need to work on bettering the industry for everyone's sake. He didn't disagree.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6bwxb

iu7n7px

To oversimplify, more people want to be architects than the market will bear, despite the many years of education required. Like teaching, it seems to be a calling rather than a solid plan to make money commensurate with the education required.

I just had this conversation with my boss at my salary review which I did not hide that I was disappointed by the evaluation. He was proud to tell me in his day he would work way more than 8 hours for his paycheck and that what I'm asking for is steep. I calmly let him know that these days, that's abuse and we need to work on bettering the industry for everyone's sake. He didn't disagree.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu7n7px

iu6b9yx

I just had this conversation with my boss at my salary review which I did not hide that I was disappointed by the evaluation. He was proud to tell me in his day he would work way more than 8 hours for his paycheck and that what I'm asking for is steep. I calmly let him know that these days, that's abuse and we need to work on bettering the industry for everyone's sake. He didn't disagree.

How many years of experience do you have ?

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu7n7px

iu6rc9g

I just had this conversation with my boss at my salary review which I did not hide that I was disappointed by the evaluation. He was proud to tell me in his day he would work way more than 8 hours for his paycheck and that what I'm asking for is steep. I calmly let him know that these days, that's abuse and we need to work on bettering the industry for everyone's sake. He didn't disagree.

It's complicated and hugely multi-factorial for a profession where it's hard to quantify in numbers the benefit even though it's needed. We don't even value ourselves seeing all the free work we do. Most people think architects "design" and that's it, when really that's just a small part of the array of duties we do. I'm married to a developer and they said they pay good arch fees. Then I broke it down and for the team and for the time put in and all those "can you make a quick change"... Which you know is anything but quick. It was illuminating. Really need to educate others outside of the profession what happens. They get what an architect does from Hollywood and God forbid...HGTV. There's like a hundred more reasons too from that devastating lawsuit about suggested fee scales to pumping out grads from nowheresville that flood the markets.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu7n7px

iu6w8e5

I just had this conversation with my boss at my salary review which I did not hide that I was disappointed by the evaluation. He was proud to tell me in his day he would work way more than 8 hours for his paycheck and that what I'm asking for is steep. I calmly let him know that these days, that's abuse and we need to work on bettering the industry for everyone's sake. He didn't disagree.

I think a part of it comes down to why firms often have a difficult time making a profit. One can estimate hours and fees required for a project, from concept through CA, but so many curveballs can be thrown throughout the duration of the project, that often times the fees agreed to end up being too low. Couple that with the fact that our projects are in essence our advertising. Even if we run out of hours or fees on a project, there is still a need to see it through to the best of our ability, so that our design and our art can be realized as intended, so we can add another strong project to our portfolio and website, which ideally will get us more projects. It’s tough to balance trying to do a project service, while maintaining profitability.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6ryir

iu6n54m

I make more money in my first year in an entry level construction position that requires a 4 year degree (project engineer) than I made in 7 years as a Project Manager with my Masters degree.

Architects should have unionized like the rest of the construction industry did generations ago. We would have a much better built environment and building designers would be fairly compensated. It is absurd that a lot of us make far less than other less skilled tradesmen.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6ryir

iu6b370

I make more money in my first year in an entry level construction position that requires a 4 year degree (project engineer) than I made in 7 years as a Project Manager with my Masters degree.

Architects are very underpaid considering the little bit of prestige we have. We can even be compared to Doctors and Lawyers. Except for the Starchitects out there the average Architect isn't making great money. My recommendation would be to find a job and then look for a better one. Always make sure you can do moonlighting on the side to make some extra money.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6ryir

iu6bwxb

I make more money in my first year in an entry level construction position that requires a 4 year degree (project engineer) than I made in 7 years as a Project Manager with my Masters degree.

To oversimplify, more people want to be architects than the market will bear, despite the many years of education required. Like teaching, it seems to be a calling rather than a solid plan to make money commensurate with the education required.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6ryir

iu6b9yx

I make more money in my first year in an entry level construction position that requires a 4 year degree (project engineer) than I made in 7 years as a Project Manager with my Masters degree.

How many years of experience do you have ?

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6rc9g

iu6ryir

It's complicated and hugely multi-factorial for a profession where it's hard to quantify in numbers the benefit even though it's needed. We don't even value ourselves seeing all the free work we do. Most people think architects "design" and that's it, when really that's just a small part of the array of duties we do. I'm married to a developer and they said they pay good arch fees. Then I broke it down and for the team and for the time put in and all those "can you make a quick change"... Which you know is anything but quick. It was illuminating. Really need to educate others outside of the profession what happens. They get what an architect does from Hollywood and God forbid...HGTV. There's like a hundred more reasons too from that devastating lawsuit about suggested fee scales to pumping out grads from nowheresville that flood the markets.

I make more money in my first year in an entry level construction position that requires a 4 year degree (project engineer) than I made in 7 years as a Project Manager with my Masters degree.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6n54m

iu6b370

Architects should have unionized like the rest of the construction industry did generations ago. We would have a much better built environment and building designers would be fairly compensated. It is absurd that a lot of us make far less than other less skilled tradesmen.

Architects are very underpaid considering the little bit of prestige we have. We can even be compared to Doctors and Lawyers. Except for the Starchitects out there the average Architect isn't making great money. My recommendation would be to find a job and then look for a better one. Always make sure you can do moonlighting on the side to make some extra money.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6n54m

iu6bwxb

Architects should have unionized like the rest of the construction industry did generations ago. We would have a much better built environment and building designers would be fairly compensated. It is absurd that a lot of us make far less than other less skilled tradesmen.

To oversimplify, more people want to be architects than the market will bear, despite the many years of education required. Like teaching, it seems to be a calling rather than a solid plan to make money commensurate with the education required.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6b9yx

iu6n54m

How many years of experience do you have ?

Architects should have unionized like the rest of the construction industry did generations ago. We would have a much better built environment and building designers would be fairly compensated. It is absurd that a lot of us make far less than other less skilled tradesmen.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu70pot

iu6b370

This my advice for all young graduates . If you want to make money go into construction and use your Revit skills there . You will learn more about building science and constructability. Then find remote jobs and do contract work with 3 firms . Boom paychecks roll in

Architects are very underpaid considering the little bit of prestige we have. We can even be compared to Doctors and Lawyers. Except for the Starchitects out there the average Architect isn't making great money. My recommendation would be to find a job and then look for a better one. Always make sure you can do moonlighting on the side to make some extra money.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu70pot

iu6bwxb

This my advice for all young graduates . If you want to make money go into construction and use your Revit skills there . You will learn more about building science and constructability. Then find remote jobs and do contract work with 3 firms . Boom paychecks roll in

To oversimplify, more people want to be architects than the market will bear, despite the many years of education required. Like teaching, it seems to be a calling rather than a solid plan to make money commensurate with the education required.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu70pot

iu6b9yx

This my advice for all young graduates . If you want to make money go into construction and use your Revit skills there . You will learn more about building science and constructability. Then find remote jobs and do contract work with 3 firms . Boom paychecks roll in

How many years of experience do you have ?

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu70pot

iu6rc9g

This my advice for all young graduates . If you want to make money go into construction and use your Revit skills there . You will learn more about building science and constructability. Then find remote jobs and do contract work with 3 firms . Boom paychecks roll in

It's complicated and hugely multi-factorial for a profession where it's hard to quantify in numbers the benefit even though it's needed. We don't even value ourselves seeing all the free work we do. Most people think architects "design" and that's it, when really that's just a small part of the array of duties we do. I'm married to a developer and they said they pay good arch fees. Then I broke it down and for the team and for the time put in and all those "can you make a quick change"... Which you know is anything but quick. It was illuminating. Really need to educate others outside of the profession what happens. They get what an architect does from Hollywood and God forbid...HGTV. There's like a hundred more reasons too from that devastating lawsuit about suggested fee scales to pumping out grads from nowheresville that flood the markets.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6w8e5

iu70pot

I think a part of it comes down to why firms often have a difficult time making a profit. One can estimate hours and fees required for a project, from concept through CA, but so many curveballs can be thrown throughout the duration of the project, that often times the fees agreed to end up being too low. Couple that with the fact that our projects are in essence our advertising. Even if we run out of hours or fees on a project, there is still a need to see it through to the best of our ability, so that our design and our art can be realized as intended, so we can add another strong project to our portfolio and website, which ideally will get us more projects. It’s tough to balance trying to do a project service, while maintaining profitability.

This my advice for all young graduates . If you want to make money go into construction and use your Revit skills there . You will learn more about building science and constructability. Then find remote jobs and do contract work with 3 firms . Boom paychecks roll in

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu7bsb1

iu7gxzp

Tortured artist mystique that has to die.

Stop selling architecture as art. Thats when we make more money

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu7bsb1

iu7a0t7

Tortured artist mystique that has to die.

The "is it worth it?" question is the crux of the issue. Architecture an interesting career that can be very rewarding. But given how much work is required to be good at this job, you can put in half the effort into another job and get paid double. After 17 years of sticking with it, I jumped ship and switched careers to system administration. Double the pay/benefits. It's just not worth it plugging away daily for so little. I'm licensed so I have been doing some jobs on the side to keep my architecture skills up to date.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu78bsk

iu7bsb1

Competition is high basically , and the reality is the developers make all the money , architects and engineers just get the scraps kind of .

Tortured artist mystique that has to die.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6b370

iu7bsb1

Architects are very underpaid considering the little bit of prestige we have. We can even be compared to Doctors and Lawyers. Except for the Starchitects out there the average Architect isn't making great money. My recommendation would be to find a job and then look for a better one. Always make sure you can do moonlighting on the side to make some extra money.

Tortured artist mystique that has to die.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6bwxb

iu7bsb1

To oversimplify, more people want to be architects than the market will bear, despite the many years of education required. Like teaching, it seems to be a calling rather than a solid plan to make money commensurate with the education required.

Tortured artist mystique that has to die.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6b9yx

iu7bsb1

How many years of experience do you have ?

Tortured artist mystique that has to die.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu7bsb1

iu6rc9g

Tortured artist mystique that has to die.

It's complicated and hugely multi-factorial for a profession where it's hard to quantify in numbers the benefit even though it's needed. We don't even value ourselves seeing all the free work we do. Most people think architects "design" and that's it, when really that's just a small part of the array of duties we do. I'm married to a developer and they said they pay good arch fees. Then I broke it down and for the team and for the time put in and all those "can you make a quick change"... Which you know is anything but quick. It was illuminating. Really need to educate others outside of the profession what happens. They get what an architect does from Hollywood and God forbid...HGTV. There's like a hundred more reasons too from that devastating lawsuit about suggested fee scales to pumping out grads from nowheresville that flood the markets.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu7bsb1

iu6w8e5

Tortured artist mystique that has to die.

I think a part of it comes down to why firms often have a difficult time making a profit. One can estimate hours and fees required for a project, from concept through CA, but so many curveballs can be thrown throughout the duration of the project, that often times the fees agreed to end up being too low. Couple that with the fact that our projects are in essence our advertising. Even if we run out of hours or fees on a project, there is still a need to see it through to the best of our ability, so that our design and our art can be realized as intended, so we can add another strong project to our portfolio and website, which ideally will get us more projects. It’s tough to balance trying to do a project service, while maintaining profitability.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu7a0t7

iu7gxzp

The "is it worth it?" question is the crux of the issue. Architecture an interesting career that can be very rewarding. But given how much work is required to be good at this job, you can put in half the effort into another job and get paid double. After 17 years of sticking with it, I jumped ship and switched careers to system administration. Double the pay/benefits. It's just not worth it plugging away daily for so little. I'm licensed so I have been doing some jobs on the side to keep my architecture skills up to date.

Stop selling architecture as art. Thats when we make more money

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu78bsk

iu7gxzp

Competition is high basically , and the reality is the developers make all the money , architects and engineers just get the scraps kind of .

Stop selling architecture as art. Thats when we make more money

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu7gxzp

iu7c9b1

Stop selling architecture as art. Thats when we make more money

Design is seen as a commodity, whoever is low bid will get the job. It’s ironic though because design significantly affects the final cost of work. I think by choosing to spend more on design up front owners would get better and more complete designs - which would reduce uncertainty/risk going into construction which would be a big cost benefit to the project.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu7gxzp

iu6b370

Stop selling architecture as art. Thats when we make more money

Architects are very underpaid considering the little bit of prestige we have. We can even be compared to Doctors and Lawyers. Except for the Starchitects out there the average Architect isn't making great money. My recommendation would be to find a job and then look for a better one. Always make sure you can do moonlighting on the side to make some extra money.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6bwxb

iu7gxzp

To oversimplify, more people want to be architects than the market will bear, despite the many years of education required. Like teaching, it seems to be a calling rather than a solid plan to make money commensurate with the education required.

Stop selling architecture as art. Thats when we make more money

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu7gxzp

iu6b9yx

Stop selling architecture as art. Thats when we make more money

How many years of experience do you have ?

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu7gxzp

iu6rc9g

Stop selling architecture as art. Thats when we make more money

It's complicated and hugely multi-factorial for a profession where it's hard to quantify in numbers the benefit even though it's needed. We don't even value ourselves seeing all the free work we do. Most people think architects "design" and that's it, when really that's just a small part of the array of duties we do. I'm married to a developer and they said they pay good arch fees. Then I broke it down and for the team and for the time put in and all those "can you make a quick change"... Which you know is anything but quick. It was illuminating. Really need to educate others outside of the profession what happens. They get what an architect does from Hollywood and God forbid...HGTV. There's like a hundred more reasons too from that devastating lawsuit about suggested fee scales to pumping out grads from nowheresville that flood the markets.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu7gxzp

iu6w8e5

Stop selling architecture as art. Thats when we make more money

I think a part of it comes down to why firms often have a difficult time making a profit. One can estimate hours and fees required for a project, from concept through CA, but so many curveballs can be thrown throughout the duration of the project, that often times the fees agreed to end up being too low. Couple that with the fact that our projects are in essence our advertising. Even if we run out of hours or fees on a project, there is still a need to see it through to the best of our ability, so that our design and our art can be realized as intended, so we can add another strong project to our portfolio and website, which ideally will get us more projects. It’s tough to balance trying to do a project service, while maintaining profitability.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu78bsk

iu7a0t7

Competition is high basically , and the reality is the developers make all the money , architects and engineers just get the scraps kind of .

The "is it worth it?" question is the crux of the issue. Architecture an interesting career that can be very rewarding. But given how much work is required to be good at this job, you can put in half the effort into another job and get paid double. After 17 years of sticking with it, I jumped ship and switched careers to system administration. Double the pay/benefits. It's just not worth it plugging away daily for so little. I'm licensed so I have been doing some jobs on the side to keep my architecture skills up to date.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu7a0t7

iu6b370

The "is it worth it?" question is the crux of the issue. Architecture an interesting career that can be very rewarding. But given how much work is required to be good at this job, you can put in half the effort into another job and get paid double. After 17 years of sticking with it, I jumped ship and switched careers to system administration. Double the pay/benefits. It's just not worth it plugging away daily for so little. I'm licensed so I have been doing some jobs on the side to keep my architecture skills up to date.

Architects are very underpaid considering the little bit of prestige we have. We can even be compared to Doctors and Lawyers. Except for the Starchitects out there the average Architect isn't making great money. My recommendation would be to find a job and then look for a better one. Always make sure you can do moonlighting on the side to make some extra money.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6bwxb

iu7a0t7

To oversimplify, more people want to be architects than the market will bear, despite the many years of education required. Like teaching, it seems to be a calling rather than a solid plan to make money commensurate with the education required.

The "is it worth it?" question is the crux of the issue. Architecture an interesting career that can be very rewarding. But given how much work is required to be good at this job, you can put in half the effort into another job and get paid double. After 17 years of sticking with it, I jumped ship and switched careers to system administration. Double the pay/benefits. It's just not worth it plugging away daily for so little. I'm licensed so I have been doing some jobs on the side to keep my architecture skills up to date.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6b9yx

iu7a0t7

How many years of experience do you have ?

The "is it worth it?" question is the crux of the issue. Architecture an interesting career that can be very rewarding. But given how much work is required to be good at this job, you can put in half the effort into another job and get paid double. After 17 years of sticking with it, I jumped ship and switched careers to system administration. Double the pay/benefits. It's just not worth it plugging away daily for so little. I'm licensed so I have been doing some jobs on the side to keep my architecture skills up to date.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6rc9g

iu7a0t7

It's complicated and hugely multi-factorial for a profession where it's hard to quantify in numbers the benefit even though it's needed. We don't even value ourselves seeing all the free work we do. Most people think architects "design" and that's it, when really that's just a small part of the array of duties we do. I'm married to a developer and they said they pay good arch fees. Then I broke it down and for the team and for the time put in and all those "can you make a quick change"... Which you know is anything but quick. It was illuminating. Really need to educate others outside of the profession what happens. They get what an architect does from Hollywood and God forbid...HGTV. There's like a hundred more reasons too from that devastating lawsuit about suggested fee scales to pumping out grads from nowheresville that flood the markets.

The "is it worth it?" question is the crux of the issue. Architecture an interesting career that can be very rewarding. But given how much work is required to be good at this job, you can put in half the effort into another job and get paid double. After 17 years of sticking with it, I jumped ship and switched careers to system administration. Double the pay/benefits. It's just not worth it plugging away daily for so little. I'm licensed so I have been doing some jobs on the side to keep my architecture skills up to date.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6w8e5

iu7a0t7

I think a part of it comes down to why firms often have a difficult time making a profit. One can estimate hours and fees required for a project, from concept through CA, but so many curveballs can be thrown throughout the duration of the project, that often times the fees agreed to end up being too low. Couple that with the fact that our projects are in essence our advertising. Even if we run out of hours or fees on a project, there is still a need to see it through to the best of our ability, so that our design and our art can be realized as intended, so we can add another strong project to our portfolio and website, which ideally will get us more projects. It’s tough to balance trying to do a project service, while maintaining profitability.

The "is it worth it?" question is the crux of the issue. Architecture an interesting career that can be very rewarding. But given how much work is required to be good at this job, you can put in half the effort into another job and get paid double. After 17 years of sticking with it, I jumped ship and switched careers to system administration. Double the pay/benefits. It's just not worth it plugging away daily for so little. I'm licensed so I have been doing some jobs on the side to keep my architecture skills up to date.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu78bsk

iu6b370

Competition is high basically , and the reality is the developers make all the money , architects and engineers just get the scraps kind of .

Architects are very underpaid considering the little bit of prestige we have. We can even be compared to Doctors and Lawyers. Except for the Starchitects out there the average Architect isn't making great money. My recommendation would be to find a job and then look for a better one. Always make sure you can do moonlighting on the side to make some extra money.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu78bsk

iu6bwxb

Competition is high basically , and the reality is the developers make all the money , architects and engineers just get the scraps kind of .

To oversimplify, more people want to be architects than the market will bear, despite the many years of education required. Like teaching, it seems to be a calling rather than a solid plan to make money commensurate with the education required.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu78bsk

iu6b9yx

Competition is high basically , and the reality is the developers make all the money , architects and engineers just get the scraps kind of .

How many years of experience do you have ?

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6rc9g

iu78bsk

It's complicated and hugely multi-factorial for a profession where it's hard to quantify in numbers the benefit even though it's needed. We don't even value ourselves seeing all the free work we do. Most people think architects "design" and that's it, when really that's just a small part of the array of duties we do. I'm married to a developer and they said they pay good arch fees. Then I broke it down and for the team and for the time put in and all those "can you make a quick change"... Which you know is anything but quick. It was illuminating. Really need to educate others outside of the profession what happens. They get what an architect does from Hollywood and God forbid...HGTV. There's like a hundred more reasons too from that devastating lawsuit about suggested fee scales to pumping out grads from nowheresville that flood the markets.

Competition is high basically , and the reality is the developers make all the money , architects and engineers just get the scraps kind of .

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu78bsk

iu6w8e5

Competition is high basically , and the reality is the developers make all the money , architects and engineers just get the scraps kind of .

I think a part of it comes down to why firms often have a difficult time making a profit. One can estimate hours and fees required for a project, from concept through CA, but so many curveballs can be thrown throughout the duration of the project, that often times the fees agreed to end up being too low. Couple that with the fact that our projects are in essence our advertising. Even if we run out of hours or fees on a project, there is still a need to see it through to the best of our ability, so that our design and our art can be realized as intended, so we can add another strong project to our portfolio and website, which ideally will get us more projects. It’s tough to balance trying to do a project service, while maintaining profitability.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu6b370

iu7c9b1

Architects are very underpaid considering the little bit of prestige we have. We can even be compared to Doctors and Lawyers. Except for the Starchitects out there the average Architect isn't making great money. My recommendation would be to find a job and then look for a better one. Always make sure you can do moonlighting on the side to make some extra money.

Design is seen as a commodity, whoever is low bid will get the job. It’s ironic though because design significantly affects the final cost of work. I think by choosing to spend more on design up front owners would get better and more complete designs - which would reduce uncertainty/risk going into construction which would be a big cost benefit to the project.

yg1brr

architecture_train

Why are architects underpaid? I recently had a conversation with a recruiter and I was told I’m asking for way more than industry standards (US market) and that I’m delusional and should probably settle for less. In my opinion AIA compensation calculator is outdated. Is to too much to ask for a little more than industry standard because of inflation, unreasonable rents and student debts? This feels like a rant but why are we ok with getting paid less in spite of having sufficient years of experience. I cannot draw comparisons to tech jobs but this is ridiculous. If anyone has a way to justify this nonsensical salary or has a way to help sell yourself better in an interview to get paid what you deserve please let me know. Thank you in advance. PS: Sometimes working in this industry feels like a waste of time.

iu7c9b1

iu6bwxb

Design is seen as a commodity, whoever is low bid will get the job. It’s ironic though because design significantly affects the final cost of work. I think by choosing to spend more on design up front owners would get better and more complete designs - which would reduce uncertainty/risk going into construction which would be a big cost benefit to the project.

To oversimplify, more people want to be architects than the market will bear, despite the many years of education required. Like teaching, it seems to be a calling rather than a solid plan to make money commensurate with the education required.