=== debianist [~pooh@80.179.93.85.forward.012.net.il] has joined #ubuntu [12:02] am gonna open a bug - /dev/dsp never works under rythmbox and there is no sound perior to to running alsamixer. i don't expect the layman to open alsamixer under a terminal [12:02] mdz: you maintain the zaptel and asterisk packaging? [12:02] after first install reboot [12:02] bdale: I used to [12:02] bdale: zaptel anyway [12:03] bdale: I maintained an asterisk/zaptel-based PBX at my previous job; I no longer have the relevant hardware and the packages need a new maintainer [12:04] mdz : do you have any lead on this? [12:04] mdz: I just picked up a digium developer's kit to play with (pci card with one each fxo and fxs daughter cards), and was a bit underwhelmed by what's in /usr/share/doc/, but will defer being annoying about it for now. [12:04] bdale: wnpp #251938 [12:04] debianist: I don't understand the problem. is this the issue where the volume is muted and/or set to a low value initially? [12:05] mdz: just delete the who categories line (to make menu entries disappear) [12:05] mdz: thanks for the pointer, I'll prod Mark [12:06] bdale: there's a #asterisk or similar somewhere [12:06] the lead upstream developer is also Mark [12:09] mdz: yes, that's the alsamixer issue [12:11] bdale: Heh. I'm getting complaints from people with Compaqs that won't work with their wireless cards now [12:11] jdub: morning [12:14] mdz: right. email sent. [12:14] mdz: fwiw, the kit I bought came with a floppy containing a set of config files for playing with this board set as delivered, and a script with associated README for doing an install from CVS that includes Debian-specific info in the README about build dependencies, but the script's automatic checker still only does RH/Mandrake. Still, it felt less Debian-hostile out of the box than a lot of things do. ;-) [12:14] mjg59: these are folks putting different minipci cards into notebooks? [12:16] ha ha xfs === spiv_ [~andrew@fuchsia.puzzling.org] has joined #ubuntu === Mithrandir [~tfheen@vawad.raw.no] has joined #ubuntu [12:18] bdale: Yeah === fabbione [fabbione@just.fugedabout.it] has joined #ubuntu [12:20] bdale: upstream is very cvs-update-make-make-install oriented; for a long time they didn't even really *do* releases [12:20] bdale: not a very fun position for the Debian maintainers :-) === haggai [~halls@pD9EA5F5B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu [12:25] jdub: I'm a strange XFS user ... I've never had a problem with it [12:25] never seen a kernel panic, never had my data trashed, etc. [12:25] ext3 and reiser on the other hand ... lost drives galore to them! :p [12:26] that is indeed unusual, Keybuk [12:26] mdz : rythmbox says /dev/dsp doesn't exist [12:28] debianist, missing sound driver module? [12:30] mdz: I've sent email, maybe I'll be able to make an impression on them. actually, packaging an installer based on the script included in this development kit might not be an unreasoanble thing to do. worth pondering. [12:30] mjg59: my suspicion is that it's going to be hard to get the notebook folks to care a lot about this, but I could be wrong. [12:31] Yeah, I can imagine [12:36] bdale: may I whine a bit at you? About HP and Linux non-support for scanners? [12:37] Mithrandir: sure. it's a topic I like to whine about too. the fundamental problem is that HP has OEM'ed a bunch of scanner stuff that we don't own all the IP for, which means some scanners are well supported and some aren't. [12:38] seems like the current cheap-ish range of them aren't supported. [12:38] Mithrandir: I had a chance to poke at management in the right part of the company about a month ago. They "understand the issue" but I don't have a completely clear picture about if/when the situation might change. [12:38] that _really_ sucks, especially given that you've had _excellent_ driver support for a wide range of OS-es in the future -- I wouldn't be surprised if I could find a word perfect 5.1 driver for a laserjeg 4100TN [12:38] laserjet, even. [12:39] I really like your scanner and printer stuff, but if it doesn't work with linux, well, at least for scanners, we have canon. ;) [12:39] so please continue poking :) [12:40] Mithrandir: I will. meanwhile, I strongly suggest checking the SANE web site's list of supported devices before making purchases, regardless of the vendor in question. [12:40] yup, that's what I've been looking at. [12:40] I received a scanjet 3500C as a gift that I need to unload because of a lack of driver support === bdale suggests eBay === jdub suggests cousins [12:41] bdale: it must be sad to give such advice. :( [12:41] I keep my 5p for exactly this reason... it's a SCSI attached scanner that has excellant driver support. === kiko suggests bonfire === HcE_ [~hc@66.80-202-212.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu [12:42] Mithrandir: well, yes. on the other hand, some Windows user will probably really enjoy it. [12:43] I actually haven't tried using my PSC-950 as a scanner while it's attached to a Linux system, but supposedly the hpoj stuff supports scanning with it. I should try that sometime. The printer/scanner/copier/fax widgets are pretty cool overall. [12:43] bdale: hah, I have the same one [12:43] I was hoping to replace it with a USB model because SCSI was getting terribly inconvenient [12:44] at least some of the PSC models are reported to work quite well under Linux [12:44] mdz: truly. my notebook supports USB 2.0, so that's become highly desirable as an interface for me personally. [12:44] mdz: yeah, printing on the PSC-950 from CUPS just works, and it hotplugs just fine === HcE_ is now known as HcE [12:45] bdale: I keep my computers in the closet and extend peripherals to my desktop via USB; it works quite nicely except that I still have a parallel printer (which requires another cable) and a SCSI scanner (which collects dust) [12:46] mdz: heh, my scanner mostly collects dust too. I use it maybe 3 times a year. [12:46] I would use it much more if it weren't such a pain to hook up; I prefer to scan documents rather than trying to maintain a physical filing system [12:47] some of the pins got bent on the cable I was using [12:47] however, I was reading up on how to get from paper to pdf the other night (sane scan pages in lineart 300dpi mode, then just give the set to convert seems to be the recipe) since I have some old machinery manuals in bad shape that I want to preserve the content from before they completely fall apart [12:47] and a new SCSI cable of the appropriate configuration would cost almost as much as a USB scanner [12:47] mdz: ick [12:48] bdale: but of course, I won't buy one of those, because I already have one I can't use and need to get rid of :-) [12:48] I've never sold anything on ebay, but I suppose I need to learn about that [12:49] scanjet 3500c seems to be going for all of $20, yuck [12:50] debianist: re #1071, dude, I do not own a time machine and therefore cannot retrospectively fix bugs in software I'd already released [12:50] debianist: Sounder 8 was released before I fixed that bug [12:50] Kamion: wimp! ;-) [12:51] is there a dvdauthor-equivalent in warty? === bdale recalls a facetious employee exam form with an option "e) allows facts to interfere with project progress" or some such... [12:53] Kamion : ok, was already close by mdz i think [12:53] Uclintu: what does dvdauthor do? [12:54] mdz: it seems to allow me to slap a bunch of mpegs together in a format suitable for writing with growisofs [12:55] I thought dvd+rw-tools had bits to do that [12:55] o [12:55] i'll check [12:55] I guess not === debianist beats himself unconsciously as a punishment === debianist [~pooh@80.179.93.85.forward.012.net.il] has joined #ubuntu === Keybuk pokes chinstrap playfully [01:33] c'mon little computer, serve a web page, you know you can do it .. [01:39] hehe, don't get too hopeful. [01:40] that explains the shit-for-beans bandwidth I have to little [01:40] rather, latency [01:41] (why do we have all this k-rad hardware and we're still all sitting around twiddling our thumbs? i blame arch.) [01:42] can I blame arch for not having k-rad hardware? [01:59] mdz: Live (not subset of) Supported is somewhat insanely weird to implement in Germinate [02:00] mdz: doable, I guess, but definitely not for 1am contemplation ... [02:00] or even 10am === StoneTable [~stone@c-67-167-111-186.client.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu [02:02] Kamion: I don't mind if Live is required to be a subset of Supported for now [02:02] Kamion: it's just an idea that might change at some point [02:12] it would change? [02:13] oh [02:13] i see your mail [02:13] okay [02:13] i object to that idea entirely [02:13] ;-) [02:13] just for the record [02:15] odd [02:15] most of Germinate was written drunkenly at 3am ... I don't see how 1am could possibly be detrimental to it [02:18] heh [02:19] I'm going to have to invent some different seed promotion rules [02:19] yow; did somebody just flush little's outgoing mail queue? [02:20] I've started getting mails about old task changes. I'd wondered where they'd gone. :-) [02:20] I just unfucked canonical.com from within the LAN [02:21] ah yes, I'd changed it to mail cjwatson@canonical.com [02:22] elmo, nice ;) [02:23] elmo: did you find the entropy monster yet? [02:23] keybuk: no, I strongly suspect it's the kernel tho :( [02:25] what does the kernel need entropy for? [02:25] and why is that slowing things like tla down, which shouldn't be using it? [02:25] it's all very odd [02:26] I dunno exactly but it does call get_random_bytes() in a number of places, and I can't find anything using /dev/random or any other way entropy could be disappearing [02:26] we should invade some random country [02:26] this entropy crisis cannot continue [02:26] we must have resolve and courage [02:26] and shit like that [02:27] They may take our lives, but they'll never take our entropy!!! [02:27] fighting the war for more entropy! [02:39] ROCK! [02:39] laptop just arrived! [02:39] cool [02:39] jdub: rad === jamesh [~james@203-59-250-175.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu [02:40] warty install coming riiiiight up :) [02:41] oh, funny: pia got a letter the other day, addressed to "P. Sith" [02:41] jdub: be careful with it, it'll break! [02:43] now i have my very own copy of windows xp [02:44] yeah, I have one of those ... [02:44] ah yes, there it is [02:44] *puts his cup back on the coaster* [02:46] cool, there's an extra battery charger in the mediabase thingy [02:46] haha === lamont goes to class. bbl [02:52] and then it dawns on me [02:52] after days of waiting [02:52] i did not think to come up with a computer name [02:52] I still haven't named mine [02:52] catsby [02:52] i'll donate you my name === jdub types 'UBUNTU' into the windows xp box [02:53] fortunately I got a suggestion from a friend for the amd64 box, otherwise I'd've had to think [02:53] and there's one spare for future use [02:54] jdub: what's your naming scheme? [02:54] i don't really have one [02:54] you're so doomed :-) [02:54] my desktop is lazarus [02:54] haha [02:54] my gateway is katia [02:54] think of a naming scheme, makes life so much easier [02:54] took me four years to come up with a naming scheme [02:54] jdub: leper? [02:54] my ibook is willow [02:55] lucifer [02:55] my qubes are quick and quark [02:55] to the untrained eye, my naming scheme is mostly "hard to spell" [02:55] Kamion: I thought that was Mithrandir's [02:55] riva, arborlon, cairhien, dhiammara, crydee, perimadeia, cittagazze [02:55] mine is alice in wonderland [02:56] Keybuk: there's a subtle difference between 'hard to spell' and 'norwegian' [02:56] jdub: he uses pwgen to invent them [02:56] they're really not words in any language [02:56] cool :-) [02:56] hfsnw [02:56] jdub: cockfosters [02:56] Kamion: characters from bad sifi? [02:56] eleven fucking system tray icons [02:57] and it's NEW [02:57] hey spiv_ [02:57] Keybuk: cities from mostly-bad fantasy [02:57] but close [02:57] i like cockfosters [02:57] that is so much cock [02:57] jdub: Hey. I'm about to sleep, but I thought you might like that suggestion before I zonk. [02:57] Kamion: am I okay to clean out the old kernel stuff now? both in terms of not built stuff and migrating to universe? [02:57] elmo: fine by me [02:58] mine is nanasawa, tycho, gabe (fd.o), twisp, catsby, brenna/kara (in reserve), kimiko, rentazilla, piro, largo, shirtguydom, ed, junpei, seraphim, boo, et al [02:58] if anything on cdimage is still using it I want to know about it anyway [02:58] the penny-arcade line is now the active one [02:58] I like "rentazilla" [02:58] Megatokyo fan, eh? [02:58] Kamion: used to be :) [02:58] daniels, where's the fruitfucker? :) [02:59] don't read it myself; several of my friends do, though [02:59] Hrdwr_BoB: the iBook I had during lca was fruitfucker2000, actually [02:59] Kamion: penny-arcade is great [02:59] heh, I amusingly keep a list of future names for machines [02:59] and I *never* use it [02:59] thom came up with syndicate [02:59] Keybuk: buy more machines, then :P [02:59] bluetooth, network, network, sound, 'safely remove hardware', dell quickset, intel wireless, on ac power, synaptics, control suite, starting with windows [03:00] daniels: isn't that, it's that they're just boring and not new :p [03:00] Hrdwr_BoB: so, I was standing in some homewares shop in Brunswick St, and I saw a Fruit Reamer, that was blurbing about how good it could ream the pulp [03:00] i burst out laughing and wondered if the creator read p-a :) [03:00] jdub: what's that, questions asked? [03:00] Kamion: systray icons [03:00] jdub: arse [03:00] ah [03:00] absolutely amazing [03:00] 'safely remove hardware', aka unmount [03:01] daniels, ehehehe [03:03] daniels: dude, you just tangoed my monitor [03:04] elmo: NO I DIDN'T! [03:05] elmo: (what happened? i assume 'tangoed' is some form of slang for 'completely rooted') [03:05] daniels: "sprayed drink over" I suspect [03:05] or, at least, caused elmo to do so [03:05] oh, cool [03:05] what keybuk said. tango's an orange fizzy drink, like fanta but nice [03:05] it's, um, "creamier" [03:06] heh. well, that's a little better than what I was thinking -- I was thinking that X had made the magic smoke escape or something in your sick quest to drive your monitor to eleventy billion x 2390 at 4Hz or whatever it was you were shooting for [03:07] lol 4hz [03:08] I like Belgian Fanta. You should get it in the UK. === Kamion imagines a wrap-around-entire-room monitor [03:08] mezzo mix is nice [03:08] Kamion: nice... [03:09] (coke + orange mineral water) [03:09] Kamion: don't forget the data glove! [03:09] Do iiyama do IMAX ? [03:09] Kamion: (although when anyone started talking about arch or any of the other projects, they'd end up screwing up their system totally) [03:10] hey, at least you could code by hand-waving! [03:10] in windows xp, you "repair" a connection [03:10] (welcome to my punchline.) [03:10] (dhcp release/renew) [03:10] jdub: does that automacially rebuild the links some clown punctured with an anchor? [03:10] jdub: it does kinda capture how people think though [03:11] "MY NETWORK IS BROKEN ... what happens if I click 'Repair'?" [03:12] i think one of my network cables is broken [03:12] then it should be "Repair Internet" [03:13] "Are you sure you wish to move The Internet into the Recycle Bin? Once done, you cannot get it back" [03:13] inn-err-net [03:17] actually [03:17] does Mac OS X hang the modem up if you drag it onto the Trash? [03:18] or scrub the firmware? [03:18] and if you drag "My Mac" onto the Trash, does it power off? [03:18] or didn't they think through the metaphor very well, after all [03:22] o acpi-modules-2.6.8.1-1-amd64-generic-di [03:22] o libdebian-installer-extra4-udeb [03:22] o ufs-modules-2.6.8.1-1-386-di [03:22] o ufs-modules-2.6.8.1-1-amd64-generic-di [03:22] kamion: all those are candidates for demotion for universe ? [03:26] elmo: acpi-modules isn't, let me fix the seed === haggai_ [~halls@pD9EA620E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu [03:28] elmo: libdebian-installer-extra4-udeb is only used by cdebootstrap which we don't use, so I zapped that [03:29] ok, zapped in the archive too [03:29] elmo: ufs-modules can go on all architectures, I just updated the seed to remove it from powerpc too [03:30] it was there for potential use by os-prober to detect BSD systems, but that support's never actually been committed === jdub_ [~jdub@home.waugh.id.au] has joined #ubuntu [03:31] Kamion: hmm [03:31] Kamion: interesting installation wos [03:32] woes [03:32] i'll start again and step through [03:32] jdub_: hm, I'm going to bed now, sorry [03:32] kamion: cool, thanks [03:32] sucky hardware, most likely [03:32] Kamion: ok, i'll send mail === tvon [tvon@dsl093-119-225.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu === kfish [~conrad@balgowlah-ep.tip.csiro.au] has joined #ubuntu [03:59] hrrrrmmm, interesting [04:09] daniels: ? [04:10] elmo: ! [04:10] daniels: xfree86 has a bogus b-d on libglide3-dev for amd64 [04:11] i think glide needs to be synced back, then [04:11] iirc glide in sid does amd64 love [04:11] yeah, I'm just seeing that [04:11] WTF [04:11] there's a libglide3 for amd64 but no libglide3-dev? [04:12] rad!! [04:12] <3 glide [04:14] mdz: hrm, must be related to scsi issues [04:14] Package: libglide3-dev [04:14] Section: libdevel [04:14] Architecture: i386 alpha ia64 amd64 [04:15] shouldn't dpkg-somethingorother blow up if it doesn't actually produce the binaries it's supposed to? [04:15] maybe it should, but it doesn't [04:15] e.g. dpkg itslef has had some binary it doesn't build in it's control file for eons [04:16] my howl package doesn't include a bunch of stupid shit [04:17] hrm === jdub_ ponders how to do the install [04:17] anyone done a netboot for a while? [04:19] we netbooted the DL140's before the conference [04:24] does d-i store any vars on the disk? === jdub_ can't find the debconf db === stub [~zen@dialup-131.80.220.203.acc05-dryb-mel.comindico.com.au] has joined #ubuntu [04:30] jdub_: there's a dir called cdebconf somewhere under /var [04:30] questions.dat and templates.dat [04:31] hrm, questions.dat maybe === jdub_ nastyhacks [04:32] i had to do that for partman (along with nano'ing the binaries it was calling) on the 4am-on-the-last-day cd :) === jame1 [~james@support.anchor.net.au] has joined #ubuntu [04:38] elmo: you going to file that glide thing in bugzilla for Mithrandir? [04:42] yo jame1 === stubish [~zen@dialup-30.83.220.203.acc06-dryb-mel.comindico.com.au] has joined #ubuntu [04:57] mdz: dude, your bong radar is on the money [04:58] we should so rip out that hdparm stuff [05:00] was that one of the problems with the real scsi stuff too? [05:03] jdub_: hey hey. Sorry, at work and only sort of here. [05:03] jdub_: seems plausible, dunno [05:03] hmm [05:04] so it's booting up for the second stage [05:04] it just loaded the ipw2200 (before tg3, grr) [05:04] then it hit loading usb modules [05:04] ieee194 [05:04] and now it's stopped [05:04] ctrl-c isn't loving me [05:05] ooh, there was an oops earlier [05:05] hci_usb_probe: can't set isoc interface settings [05:05] unable to handle kernel null pointer dereference === jdub_ boots again [05:06] hrm, there we go === Gman [~Glynn@amfea-proxy-2.sun.com] has joined #ubuntu [05:12] hans sure is out of his head === mdz reads LWN [05:14] new crack? === jorge_ [~jorge@arslinux.com] has joined #ubuntu === jorge_ is now known as whiprush [05:16] yp whiprush [05:16] yo, rather ;) [05:16] heya jdub, just the man I wanted to talk to... [05:41] whiprush: hey dude [05:43] hrm [05:44] no /dev/cdrom or /dev/scd0 [05:48] morning guys [05:54] hey daniels, jdub_. [05:55] ber [05:55] daniels: you missed the whole slashdot thing for your intervie while you were gone. heh. [05:56] whiprush: heh, I caught up on that a couple of days later [05:57] your fdo thing for the kde conference was sweet, btw, from what I saw from the fluendo coverage. [05:57] that second dude asking questions was gunning for you, heh. [06:01] heh :) [06:01] yeah, the small dude was aseigo [06:01] martin konold was being a dick, though [06:02] oh, I couldn't hear the name, was that the guy? the one whiner dude. [06:03] mdz: any weirdarse tricks to get ipw2200 going? [06:03] jdub_: nope, Just Works for me [06:04] hrm [06:04] as of sounder 8? [06:07] before [06:07] apt-get install linux-image-2.6.8.1-blah and it goes [06:07] is the driver not getting loaded? [06:07] mdz: can you approve the sync for freenet6? [06:08] driver's getting loaded [06:08] it's using firmware_class [06:08] but it's not getting any linkage [06:09] output from iwconfig is basically bare beyond the essid [06:09] no ap [06:12] fabbione: didn't I? [06:12] mdz: i don't see any answer in my inbox [06:13] you approved lvm2 and it is done [06:13] I must have confused the two [06:13] sent now [06:13] thanks :-) [06:15] ok [06:15] never mind [06:16] it's not grokking my ap [06:16] hrm [06:16] will there be a sounder 9 prior to the public release? Or should I test 8? [06:16] I missed it by a few days [06:19] grab 8, or a daily [06:19] k [06:19] jdub_: does explicitly calling 'key off' help? [06:20] one sec [06:20] upgrading via some random network [06:20] not my own! gar! [06:20] I'm wondering how people are going to handle the sudo thing. It certainly demolished all my bad habits. [06:22] mdz: approx how long does it take you to do i386 and ppc installs? [06:22] jdub_: not long, why? [06:22] whiprush: I think the current daily is no good [06:22] sounder 8 is probably your best bet [06:22] ok. [06:23] it has a couple of known issues, but nothing an apt-get upgrade won't fix [06:23] k [06:23] Colin's announcement to the sounder mailing list describes them [06:23] the sources.list still point to the cd, or do I need to update it manually? [06:24] mdz: i need times :) [06:24] jdub_: I'll time it the next time I go through [06:24] remind me [06:24] ok [06:24] ok, I'll redo the laptop install, I doubt there will be any major problems, but I'll report to the list anyway. [06:24] whiprush: you'll need to uncomment the sources.list entries for ftp.n-n-y.com [06:24] to get the latest packages [06:25] k [06:25] 118 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. [06:25] man - I just upgraded yesterday or so, it seems... === justdave_ [~dave@24.247.63.44.gha.mi.chartermi.net] has joined #ubuntu [06:32] whoa [06:32] this is fast [06:33] your laptop? [06:33] yeah [06:33] is this the dell-crack300? [06:33] yeah [06:33] well, it's gotta be faster then the toilet seat, hasn't it? [06:34] it's only a 1.4GHz centrino [06:34] but blammy fucking faster than willow [06:34] with 1MB of fucking cache [06:34] let's just cover that again... [06:34] 1MB of fucking cache! [06:34] of course it's fast [06:35] how much cache do I have? [06:35] [davyd@pingu ~] $ cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep "cache size" [06:35] cache size : 512 KB [06:35] the new 2gig centrinos have 2MB as well [06:35] so not only is that faster then this CPU, it has 4 times the fucking cache [06:35] the dothans do, they go as low as 1.2 ghz, with the 2mb cache. === Riff continues to be bitter [06:35] whiprush: I didn't know they went that low [06:35] I've only seen 2gig versions [06:35] your machine is called pingu? that's so rad. [06:35] yeah, it's sick. [06:36] Riff: you just made my day :) [06:36] daniels: stephanie's is called pinga [06:37] Riff: the wattage difference from the banias centrino's is significant also. I've seen 20%+ improvement in battery life with the new chips. [06:37] whiprush: now if only someone would manufacture a new laptop I want to buy [06:37] the P-M is a sweet processor as well [06:37] it massively outperforms the P-3 and P-4 [06:38] Keybuk: could this be anything to do with it's 1MB OF CACHE!!?!?!?! [06:38] Riff: it's also because it wasn't designed by Intel Marketing [06:38] Riff: have you heard elmo's favourite song? [06:38] and the fact it's pipeline isn't 4 quadzillion instructions long [06:38] Riff: yeah I'm waiting for fujitsu to put them in their P series. [06:38] the P-4 was basically a " we want you to double the clock speed" ... " ok, we'll cheat, and double the pipeline length" [06:38] whiprush: I haven't looked at Fujitsu laptops, are they any good? [06:39] P-M uses most of its cache for instruction window and ROB stuff [06:39]